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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not teach my DS any English

702 replies

DewinDoeth · 07/06/2010 20:34

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

OP posts:
PuppyMonkey · 08/06/2010 15:50

"DH, incidentally, is desperate to come on this thread but he's not on mumsnet. "

DH could quite easily join MN - it would be interesting to hear what he says.

MmeLindt · 08/06/2010 15:53

Posie
Many of those who agree with her are bringing their DC up bilingually, so perhaps have a better understanding of the challenges that this brings.

And by your reckoning, I am weak and rather strange as I speak to my DC in German a lot of the time.

MmeLindt · 08/06/2010 15:54

And why should her DH not put his tuppenceworth into the discussion if he wants to? He is being called weak, strange, odd...

Why should he not defend himself and his actions?

LetThereBeRock · 08/06/2010 15:58

It's just pathetic when people do that.It's not exclusive to the OP.I've seen a few people do that or have their friends pile in and it makes me cringe.

posieparker · 08/06/2010 16:01

Calling him names? I think I was describing his actions. I'm not taking any moral high ground either.

Can you explain your set up Mme? IE what your mother tongue is, what your DH's is and where you live? Because this father does not speak to his own child in his own language and that is peculiar.

singsinthebath · 08/06/2010 16:02

helyg thanks for the explanation - been out on the school run.

It's the in between bit - i.e. between the ages of 3 and 7 - when the child may not be able to express himself adequately in English to his GPs that is the issue for me.

Those are great years in a child's development, and even fairly hands-off GPs still like to see and communicate with their grandchildren during that time.

Sassybeast · 08/06/2010 16:03

Especially if the friends are the imaginary type...

LetThereBeRock · 08/06/2010 16:04

LOL yes that is often the case

MmeLindt · 08/06/2010 16:06

It is not peculiar.

My native language is English. I met and married German DH and we have two DC. By the time I had DC I had been living in Germany for over 10 years and spoke German like a native (or very close to).

So I spoke to my DC in German. And English.

They are trilingual now.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 08/06/2010 16:10

I think it's the absence of the "And English" that pp thinks is peculiar. The father in this case speaks to his DC exclusively in his own second language, and that is peculiar (in the sense of "not the normal course of action") for a parent wanting to raise a bilingual child.

giveitago · 08/06/2010 16:10

The OP of the other thread is very telling on the attitude to ils.

If your first language is Welsh, if you mix through the medium of Welsh, if your child is cared for through the medium of Welsh then having a bit of communication in Enlgish is hardly going to scupper your efforts now is it?

Anniebee65 · 08/06/2010 16:16

OP I realise I'm am quoting from the other thread, but the other thread is so illuminating it's hard not to.

You've even suggested that racism is contributing to their attitude on both threads.

You have a difficult relationship with your ILs and it's bleeding into the language issue.

sarah293 · 08/06/2010 16:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MmeLindt · 08/06/2010 16:27

The OP has not said that her DS hears no English, or that she goes out of her way to avoid him hearing English spoken.

And her DH speaks Welsh very well.

Welsh is going to be the minority language once her DS starts nursery/school. The more grounded he is now the better.

The issues with the PILs taking the DS to the zoo is separate (but linked to language).

Dewin
I do think that you should let your DS go away for the day with your PILs. They will cope, truly they will.

Look at your DS, and think about how you feel about him. Now think about the fact that your MIL felt that way about about your DH when he was a baby. And now feels similar towards her son's son. She wants to spend time with her Grandson. Let her have this special time with your DS.

maxybrown · 08/06/2010 16:58

My Husband (also an Historian btw) is desperate to come on here too, funny. he is home now, may post later.

That is the point I was trying to make - your Husband is learning Welsh out of respect for you, your son and your family. So why can't it be that your son learns English out of respect for His Father, and his Grandparents - rather than just waiting until he picks it up naturally. That is all I was saying. I think it would be, as many others have pointed out, a fantastic opportunity for him to be already able in it when the time comes at school.

Oh and as a family we are all for learning others languages, it is interesting, good for our brains and respectful of others. DH's Mum can speak many languages that she has taught herself or gone to night school to learn. DH seems to just pick them up second nature and his BIL is a French translator

omnishambles · 08/06/2010 17:14

MMeLindt - I dont think thats the case. I assumed that the dc would be going to a Welsh-speaking nursery and school where they wont learn English until Year 3 actually.

Welsh will be the dominant language in the house and school environment - at least formally - until University.

giveitago · 08/06/2010 17:19

The OP is just being a bit political.

We all know that her ds will pick the dh's language with no issues but this there is alot of stuff about dh learning welsh out of respect to her her family her roots etc.

I think it's great that if dh is living in Wales he should give the language his best shot.

However, ds's early language learning has been managed to exclude his other heritage. No issue for ds but it has interfered with his relationship with ils. I doubt his Welsh be any better for it in the longrun.

piscesmoon · 08/06/2010 17:54

If it is about language and not control then I can't see the difficulty just swap between the 2-there is never a better time. It seems silly to me to wait until school when he could be fluent in both long before then.
With PIL and toddler the language doesn't matter-they can easily manage a trip to the zoo. Lots of 2 yr olds don't speak at all and they can manage to get on with grandparents.
If I was the MIL I would get a caravan or holiday cottage and be down often-spending quality time with DS, bringing books, playing games and doing singing rhymes I would back this up with conversations on Skype-all in English-he would soak it up like a sponge.

piscesmoon · 08/06/2010 17:57

If I had the advantage of a DH speaking a different language I wouldn't waste DSs best years for picking it up by deliberately refusing to let him hear it. I would be thrilled if Ds had the chance to be bilingual.

Pogleswood · 08/06/2010 17:57

I actually think the OP isn't BU,if her DH is happy to talk to his son in welsh,that is up to them surely?
And the DC will learn english - long distance communication with a 2 year old is pretty limited whatever the language issues,and if I were the grandmother in this family I'd be trying to see as much of my grandchild as possible,and I would talk to him in my own language,and try to learn at least a little of his first language as well.

When I was a teenager we regularly went to Wales on holiday and stayed at the same farm,the family had 2 children and were welsh speakers - DSis and I loved the kids and played a lot with them(the eldest was a toddler when we first went).They spoke welsh and we spoke english(with the odd welsh phrase we'd picked up) to them - I can't remember it being a problem communicating at all at that age.
So I think if the grandparents want to communicate with their welsh speaking small grandson,the onus is on them to find a way to do that.

Pogleswood · 08/06/2010 17:59

X posts ,Piscesmoon!At least on the grandparent behaviour part...

piscesmoon · 08/06/2010 18:00

I think that grandparents can easily find a way-whether OP would like all the contact is a different matter! If I was retired, and not dependant on jobs, I would actually move close by and soon have him fluent in English!!

Pogleswood · 08/06/2010 18:06

The whole learning fluent english bit is a bit of a red herring though,as I'm sure many other people have already said - the OP's son is in absolutely no danger at all of ending up with difficulties communicating in english.

thesecondcoming · 08/06/2010 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ActuallyMyNamesMarina · 08/06/2010 18:16

DewinDoeth - are you at Glyndwr Uni? I only ask cos I was beginning to think you were my cousin - but your specialism is wrong.

My cousin lectures at Glyndwr has stromg interest in Welsh speakers and their tratment - you'd get on well.

All my family are bi-lingual to varying degrees, don't know how, but `learning'English/Welsh just happened it was never an issue.

I really regret niot using it more. Am teaching DD bits - she can sing Calon Lan and Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau and count, say hello, how are you etc, it's not much, but it's fun