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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not teach my DS any English

702 replies

DewinDoeth · 07/06/2010 20:34

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

OP posts:
helyg · 08/06/2010 11:50

Charlie and Lola translates pretty well into Welsh, DD has a large collection of Cai a Lois books.

EmmyVonN · 08/06/2010 11:51

"They have refused to babysit on many occasions because they're too busy (so I had a tooth abscess and had to have emergency dental treatment in London, leaving my DS with a friend because PILs couldn't help out). Fine, people have plans and arrangements. But you can't have it all your way."

Do you realise how selfish that sounds? You seem to really dislike your pils. I agree with the others who've said that you're using the language issue to get at them. As you did with the breastfeeding.

I really can't understand, as I posted earlier, why your DH is okay with having his culture completely swallowed up by yours. You've chosen to exclude them by not giving your child direct access to English. And that is hurtful.

I agreed with you at the beginning of this thread, but with each post you're convincing me that this is really about control and that you do lack respect for your DH's background and his parents.

Original poster
DewinDoeth · 08/06/2010 11:52

Omni yes, it is south east; Essex in fact. I might have had a different attitude if he was, say, a Geordie with a rich local dialect. (I'm sure Essex has that, but it's everywhere, so not so much of an issue with hearing/passing it on.)
As it is, the English around here is largely Scouse due to proximity, so he'll have some of those turns of phrases etc, and a touch of the accent.

OP posts:
helyg · 08/06/2010 11:54

Dewin you have probably already read it, but if not this might interest you.

We took part in research into Welsh language usage with babies back in 2006 when DD was born. It was carried out by jointly Bangor University and TWF.

singsinthebath · 08/06/2010 11:55

LOL at Essex not having a rich dialect. Of course, it does.
But you are making a negative value judgement about it.

This is rapidly turning into Gavin and Stacey.

maxybrown · 08/06/2010 11:57

oh gosh, God forbid I should make a mistake - am dyslexic, thanks for that I wasn't being

maxybrown · 08/06/2010 11:57

oh gosh, God forbid I should make a mistake - am dyslexic, thanks for that I wasn't being

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 08/06/2010 11:58

Yeah, your last post says it all. Your inlaws are just so very common aren't they? Imagine being from Essex! Oh, hang on, I am

maxybrown · 08/06/2010 11:59

oops, there I go again - making a mistake. I wasn't being catty, I am not like that, merely stating MY opinion - whose elses am I supposed to have if not my own? You came on here and asked - people will give their own opinions obviously - or did you want a load of back slaps?

Jamieandhismagictorch · 08/06/2010 12:00

I agree with Acanthus and singsinthebath. The language thing is a smokescreen. Have posted a question on your other thread too.

Jamieandhismagictorch · 08/06/2010 12:02

I also can't understand why you and DH would speak English to each other but not to your DS. I agree with Emmy

maxybrown · 08/06/2010 12:04

And I meant you are being disrespectful as you see it as something he will annoyingly naturally pick up - his Grandparents speak that language FFS. (I am putting aside the fact that they do sound a bit arsey too here) So that IS IMO disrespectful to them - regardless of what they do. You are doing the same, and by BF your son for longer just to annoy them, well that sums you up. All sounds a bit tit for tat to me

maxybrown · 08/06/2010 12:06

Oh, and, why would you need to point out a spelling mistake of mine - I did not once say anything derogatory about your English - or your Welsh for that matter. No need for that at all.

For what it's worth, my Husband can speak Welsh, English and won an award for best Russian speaker in the UK. His spelling however is quite poor at times, it does not make someone incapable

wannaBe · 08/06/2010 12:06

Agree that you controlling the first exposure your ds has to english would surely be preferable. Much better that ds learns nursery rhymes/general talk in the home than his exposures being hearing the local teens telling each other to fuck off in the park.

Theochris · 08/06/2010 12:07

tit for tat I'm hoping that pun was intended

maxybrown · 08/06/2010 12:08

I realised that as I pressed post message

wahwah · 08/06/2010 12:09

You're all a bit unkind to the OP and a bit ignorant of communicating with children in my opinion. OPs in laws sound unpleasant and discriminatory against the Welsh ( and therefore their Grandson ) and anyone who has spent any time with a toddler knows that the spoken language isn't the main communication and doesn't really matter. All the children in my family ( except me and my siblings) only spoke Welsh when small, we had no problem understanding each other AND picking up a few words.

I think this is all about the defensiveness people feel about the Welsh and the language ( they only speak Welsh when there's an English person around you know)...

singsinthebath · 08/06/2010 12:12

wahwah - it's not an anti-Welsh thing. It's about celebrating the child's dual culture, and facilitating communication with the GPs.

singsinthebath · 08/06/2010 12:14

Also, spoken language may not be the primary communication method for a two year. But what about when he's four or five?

hmc · 08/06/2010 12:24

"oh gosh, God forbid I should make a mistake - am dyslexic, thanks for that I wasn't being"

Maxybrown - it is precisely for this sort of reason that I hate pedants with a passion, and I would like to see the very worst of them (those who quite clearly, and probably incorrectly, consider themselves to have a massive intellect)put in the gallows and pelted with fecking dictionaries.

helyg · 08/06/2010 12:26

Whether or not it is intended as anti-Welsh, it can certainly feel like it from this side of Offa's Dyke.

Welsh is a minority language due to 150 years of the assumption that a child educated solely through Welsh will not get on in life. When the education system was set up in the mid 19th century the Welsh language and culture was seen as far inferior to that of England, and so children were discouraged from using their mother tongue.

100 years later a movement began to try to restore the status of the Welsh language. But so much damage had already been done that it was a very hard battle.

So forgive us if we are a little over-protective of our right to bring our children up speaking Welsh and Welsh alone. We may be a little prickly about it, but that is due to years of being told that our language is dead, useless and that we will never get on in life without the English language, whose supposed superiority almost killed our language in the first place.

I think it may be time for lunch

inveteratenamechanger · 08/06/2010 12:26

YABU.

My DD is two, and her GPs - on both sides - would be devastated if they could not speak to her.

Your PILs probably already feel excluded that they live so far from you, and that your mum spends so much time with DS. (Nothing to be done about that I know, but all the more reason not to exclude them further.)

Yes, your DS will be fluent in English in a few years time, but these are crucial years for bonding with GPs.

I had a crap relationships with my GPs, and am so glad that DD has a good relationship with both sides.

hmc · 08/06/2010 12:26

You might like to get of your Oxbridge phD horse and apologise to Maxybrown, Dewin

wahwah · 08/06/2010 12:26

When you say his culture, do you mean English culture, because no child in the UK will need extra input there- it is the dominant culture, after all. Also the OP is clearly saying that he will learn English as he gets older.

Also, communication is 2 way, what stops these grandparents making an effort to speak with their Grandchild? It's not really a stretch, is it?

This is really fascinating.

hmc · 08/06/2010 12:27

high horse (that would be).