to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

And it's not that your husband learning welsh is cruelty to his parents - refusing to allow his son, and their grandson, to speak one of the languages of his country of birth and the native language of his father is cruelty. You're denying him a chance to have any relationship with his grandparents. That's cruelty - to your son.

fwiw op I see nothing wrong with your dh learning another language to fluency and even speaking that language in his own home. Although as you say you speak english to each other I am guessing his Welsh isn't that fluent that he feels comfortable enough speaking it all the time which is why I think it's odd that he doesn't speak english to his child.

If he'd grown up in wales and spoke welsh on a par with it being a first language then I could see more why he spoke it to his ds.

In fact I could see how that could come about.

I grew up in South Africa. I attended an Afrikaans speaking boarding school where only Afrikaans was spoken. Hence my Afrikaans was far better than my english. Had i stayed in SA I can easily see how I might have married an afrikaaner and how Afrikaans would have been our first language due to my own fluency (I thought in Afrikaans, to all intents and purposes, Afrikaans was my first language as I spoke it far more than I spoken English). But my parents don't speak it. And English is a part of who I am. And it would have been unreasonable to have children who would have been half english but who didn't speak english, and couldn't speak it to their extended family.

It's all irelevant because I didn't marry and afrikaaner and I don't have afrikaans speaking children, but ykwim.

OP, you're being so deliberately obtuse, it's untrue.

Your OH learning a language to fluency is not the issue here. Of course it's not 'cruelty' to his own parents - nobody has said that!

You also bang on about not being able to teach a toddler a language - and yet you yourself litter your very first post with the word 'teach'.

You are willfully missing everyone's points (which you have to clearly, as you are BU). Although I don't know why you even posted this in AIBU, since you so clearly think you're doing the right thing anyway!

colditz - that's rubbish.

I spent ~8 years living in Belgium - a country which has 3 official languages. Is a Wallon family expected to teach their toddler French and German just because the country is officially trilingual?

Flemish, not French.

I do wish Cod was on this thread

skihorse - don't get on started on the Wallons who never bother to learn any language apart from french!

It is very common for children in Belgium to be brought up to be bilingual - most (60%) of my dds's classmates are brought up bilingually - and many of the solely flemish speaking families send their children to languages classes from age 5/6.

skihorse - what's that got to do with anything?

If members of a Wallon family speak only one of those three languages, you'd expect them to communicate to the child in their language so that he would pick it up, and they could have a close relationship.

You wouldn't teach the child the languages just for the sake of it, though.

I don't see the analogy. [/dim]

belgo - I don't disagree - from the Flanders part of the country. It would however be unusual for a 2 year old living in Mons to be taught Flemish, German and English "just because".

You clearly live in Flanders.

so straight away you get overly offensive - and here here 5dollarshake.

Of course your Husband is not being disrespectful - YOU ARE. And if you only put this up so the two of you can sit and snigger about everyone else - then bugger off! Were you in that shop I talked about by any chance?

I feel sorry for his gps - although they were a little inflammatory with the dead language remarks. They are being denied a relationship with him (until he is older and has acquired English), and I don't really feel -as you insinuate - that the answer is for them to learn Welsh (a) at their age and (b) when presumably, not living in Wales, there would be few practical opportunities for them to speak Welsh

skihorse - that analogy is totally different to the OP's set.

The Op is deliberately not teaching their child a langauge that is vital to the child's communication with their own grandparents - and I do not understand that, and have never come across that. All the parents I know are desperate for any excuse to get their child learn a second or third language.

'set up' I mean.

I keep on missing out random words in my sentences.

I just don't see the issue.

OP I totally support your right to speak whatever language you wish in the home especially as like others said at the start of the thread your ds WILL learn english by pure osmosis. I live in spain, dh speaks catalan to ds, I speak english to him and dh and I speak spanish to each other. I don't think our situations are comparable because if I did not speak english to ds he would be unlikely to learn it to a fluent level. The OPs case is not the same - their DS WILL learn english all by himself. Just like no one is teaching ds (3) spanish but he understands a lot and will be fluent in it like all the other kids here, because it is the other main language where we live, he hears his parents speak it, he hears it on the tv, on the street/ in the park. He doesn't need to be taught it just now.

I think the problem with the PIL is very obviously their problem, they are the ones who think their gs will not understand them, a patently ridiculous idea as he is 2, not 10. Though, and I could be wrong here but think on your other thread it sounded like YOU, OP, were using the inability to communicate as a reason that they shouldn't take him out. If this is so, I don't agree with that at all, they should be allowed to see him and muddle along as best they can. Of course it seems they have many other issues which make taking him out impossible but that is the other thread!

I'm not speaking my mothertongue with ds - we speak English at home and he will learn my mt at school when he goes next year - it will be in a country where my mt is spoken.

I personally don't like opol - I know too many people who were brought up that way and actually don't speak either language as well as those who have a really solid first language.

I also don't like speaking to dh and ds in a different language, it makes 3-way conversations very messy.

My limited experience of children who are raised by one parent speaking one language and the other parent speaking another is not only do the children become fluent in both languages they all seem to have an advantage in learning languages at school and appear to pick them up effortlessly.

I would also want control of the first exposure to English as well - surely its beter in the house and from a single source (ie DH) with books and rhymes than it is from Cbeebies or the wider media etc?

I take it that DH is from Southern England as well? So you wouldnt be losing any idiosyncracies of regional language from elsewhere that he may have?

I speak Spanish to my DC and DP speaks English. We live in the UK but if we move, we will continue this and DC/s will learn the local language outside of the home. When DCs older I will introduce other languages that I speak because it's so much easier to learn languages as a young child.

I think it's totally bizarre that your DH doesn't speak to your DS in English. Then you speak to DS in Welsh. Then DS will never have to learn English, he will inherently know it. I think you are putting him at a disadvantage by not allowing him to be bilingual right now.

good points omnishambles.

! like my dc to hear words/ phrases/ songs that are specific to me and my family.

But the Hungry Caterpillar is Y Lindysyn Llwglyd

I'm not sure that English toddler culture in translation is that much of a problem. The Gruffalo actually (to me) reads better in Welsh than in English... Help o help o nefi blw wen Gryffalo crac efo cyrn ar ei ben! just sounds so much better.

I was talking to Anthony Browne (the Children's Laureate) at Hay last week, and he was all for translation of his books into Welsh. He said that he had once been to a stage production of one of his books in Welsh, although he didn't speak a word of it he starngely understood the story having written it

I'm not sure that my DC actually know any English nursery rhymes. In fact I struggle to think of any myself in full... Nursery rhymes have just always been in Welsh, despite having one non-Welsh speaking parent. I don't feel enormously hard done by, all of the Gee Ceffyl Bach, Dau Gi Bach, Ribidires etc seemed to have filled the gap just as well!

I do consider myself a mix of British cultures. My dad's side was Welsh through and through, my mum's side was a mixture of English, Irish and Scottish. But I am Welsh, and so are my children.

The PILs are insensitive and clearly irritating towards you, but the main point here, which seems to go unanswered, is that while mostly hearing Welsh at home is absolutely fine, would it hurt to let his grandparents take him out and either offer him a drink or perhaps teach (and yes it would be teach for one or two words) your DS just a word or two for easy communication? You might not get on with them, but wouldn't it be nice if your DS did? Another year or so is a long time for them to feel left out of the relationship.

That should be South-East England - apologies to Devon and Cornish people...ahem

Charlie & Lola doesn't translate into flemish very well at all.

Far nicer to watch the program and read the books in english.

OhYouBadBadKitten but it's also true of bilinguals like me, who spoke one language only at home and acquired the massive and unavoidable other language without trying.

V good posts from ib and maveta.

Why do I have to keep saying I'M NOT DENYING MY SON ANY LANGUAGE.
'The Op is deliberately not teaching their child a langauge that is vital to the child's communication with their own grandparents' :
no, no, no! I'm not deliberately not teaching him English; he's learning English! He hears DH and I speaking English, he hears others, there are children at nursery who speak English at home (but they also learn Welsh massively quickly because it's not an English nursery).
My PILs aren't around, they see DS 4 times a year, maybe for a day or so each time! They live miles away and keep going on holiday.
I'm not changing my language, and DH has made his - for various reasons, including selfish ones, including respect, and id's reasoning too.

Who is Cod? Welsh speaker? Welsh hater?

Maxybrown:

Of course your Husband is not being disrespectful - YOU ARE.

How exactly? By speaking my mother tongue and not my second language? I really don't think you have any comprehension.

And seeing as you're being catty: it's 'hear hear', not 'here here'. I'm fully bilingual.