to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

RE: the inlaws... I still maintain that they will be able to communicate with your DS whether or not they actually speak the same language. But IMO the zoo trip is a bit far for a first day out with them, especially if they don't "do" nappies. My MIL didn't "do" nappies either if she could help it, and I can remember DS2 coming home with enormous sore blisters the size of a 50p piece because he hadn't been changed.

Anyway, back to discussing pubs and buring down holiday homes

burning even, I do have a good grasp of the English language, honest!

I think YABU.

If he will eventually learn English anyway, why not help him learn earlier so he can communicated with your DH's family?

I really cannot understand any reason not to help him talk to his grandparents? Why doesn't your DH help him talk to his grandparents?

"But you know, DH speaking Welsh doesn't mean he loses anything; he doesn't lose his own culture, and isn't turning his back on it. He just doubles up - I have English culture too, and also Welsh. I just have double everything. "

But your DS does not have this double culture? He only has Welsh. Why can't he have both now? Why wait?

My DC will be brought up bilingual from word go, with both parents speaking their mother tongue, although we are both bilingual. Because our families are NOT bilingual and why should they miss out? When already they will miss out on so much because they live a long way away.

Reading it again I see that Welsh grandmother gets 2 days on her own with the DC every week and has obviously got a wonderful relationship, whereas poor English grandmother can't even have for half an hour!! How fair is that? Poor paternal grandmother has to wait at least another 5 years to communicate with a close relative and will always be a stranger whereas the Welsh lot are close knit family. Hopefully I will never get a DIL who excludes to such a degree-especially when she could easily use both languages.

DH is at fault IMO-he should never have allowed it to happen. Does he not get on with his family to be so cruel?

Ok, in capitals:

I AM NOT PREVENTING MY SON LEARNING ENGLISH. I AM NOT AGAINST BILINGUALISM.

Let's talk about language acquisition. Everyone who is saying I should 'teach DS English' - what's your recommendation? How have all you monoglots (sorry sounds like a rude word!) 'taught' your children English? Do you sit down with a grammar book? No - they just absorb, and it's the ultimate way to learn a language. (Nothing to do with it being 'like a disease'. That's totally silly.)
I don't 'teach' my DS Welsh, but it's the language I speak to him.
I don't speak English to him because I don't speak English to anyone who speaks Welsh: friends, family, shop assistants, gym teacher, colleagues.

So, the flip side: everyone who is English [or insert language] and doesn't speak any other language aren't 'teaching' their children a language. They're just speaking like they do. And it's not a choice: if your language is English, you're not 'choosing' to bring your children up English to give them an advantage/to score points/to exclude all monoglot Spanish speakers etc.

What I am doing is speaking in my own language to my own DS. What's so weird about that? Is it scary because the language isn't English? Is it worrying that half the world's population won't be able to understand that language? (If so, God help all minority languages.)

The big difference is that I can speak English fluently - I'm bilingual. Lucky me. But there are hundreds and thousands of people like me who acquired English effortlessly, as a toddler: I can't remember any instance of actually 'learning' English. It was all absorbed, quickly, effortlessly, perfectly. That's how bilingualism works.

DH and I speak English together - DS hears that. He will start copying and picking it up soon - in fact, he has already. PILs speak English with him. My Spanish friend speaks Spanish with him because she can, and because she speaks to children in Spanish. (So far, no Spanish...! But he plays a bit with her and has no problems.) He's also been to toddler groups etc in London, where they all speak English (or other languages...) and has no problems. Although he can't sing the songs - but neither can I because I never learnt them. I didn't sulk though - I just had a go at this song about Miss Polly. And DS did the actions.

If I'm to start speaking English with my DS 'so that he can be bilingual' (wrong, wrong, wrong, because he will be anyway, that's how bilingualism works) then where does that leave us with OPOL? It's OP2L if I'm speaking two. And then we're going against all guidelines!

Erm, if you had researched bilingual language development you would know that each parent should only speak to the children in their mother tongue.

I know many many many children who have two or three languages from the off.

Have started reading your other thread and am at this :

"Not doing OPOL because of the linguistic benefits to my DH "

So DH is speaking Welsh to his child to improve his own language skills? NOT to defend your culture, but for his own gain?

His poor parents.

Your DH should speak English to your DS. Not you.

In your other thread you won't let his GPs take him for the day because he can't tell them he is thirsty

'You are DELIBERATELY not teaching your child a language that you speak, at the cost of his relationship with his gps.Shame on you.'

Don't be SILLY. You are being very, very stupid now. I speak Welsh, English, German, Italian and Spanish. I am DELIBERATELY not teaching my child 5 languages:
BECAUSE YOU DON'T TEACH TODDLERS LANGUAGES.

I am not teaching my DS Welsh. I chat to him in Welsh, but no teaching. No flashcards, no grammar lessons, no 'this is the word for this' business. I just talk to him in one language. OLOP.

I AM NOT WITHHOLDING ENGLISH.

OP
Your PILs were rude to you and have disrespected your language and culture. Maybe they didn't feel the need to learn a few words of Welsh because of your -superior- excellent Oxford PhD English.

Now, it seems to me, that a small (or even large) part of you is trying to punish them. And in doing so you are also showing an equal disrespect and linguistic intransigence.

Your son will learn English eventually but he will be delayed in bonding with his grandparents if he waits until he is at school to do so.

And dare I suggest that you are using the minority language argument to justify your feud with your in-laws.
It's very convenient that you can imply that anyone who disagrees with you is politically incorrect and trying to oppress your culture.

Hi DewinDoeth.

Can understand you'd like welsh to be his first language.

You seem to find it helpful to post on here, for support, comments, feedback, companionship, whatever. In English.

Perhaps your son would also find it useful to have access to means of conversation and connection through English as well. Just as a bonus to Welsh?

No, but you are withholding your DS's relationship with his father's family. Agree with whoever said this is about control, not language.

So can dh at least sing him the nursery rhymes? Maybe a day like a week like another poster suggested? Otherwise he is missing out already on a shared culture that he may one day like to pass onto his dc - as you would have if you had known them?

I dont think anyone is suggesting btw that you should be speaking English just because you can - thats clearly wrong, just that your dh should be doing some. Maybe not the round the hosue stuff but maybe clearly defined cultural stuff - like the nursery rhymes or Peepo/Hungry Caterpillar etc so that he isnt having the English toddler culture in translation.

No-one wants you to speak English to your son, that would be crazy. I don't even think your DH should if he is happy with the way things are now, but if you use the language as a reason that pil cannot spend some time alone with their grandson you are being very unreasonable.

I think I should get my DH on here.

I talked to him last night (on the phone - in ENGLISH! ) and he thought it was hilarious that his learning a language to fluency was 'cruelty' to his own parents. In fact he found all the comments about his freakery/irresponsible behaviour/selfishness and cruelty in learning another language and learning it well to be hilarious. (As do I!)
This is about respect. He is a man with a massive amount of respect and he's really showing it. I am not disrespectful of the English language, English culture, or English people. I married one, I have lived in England, I studied at an English University.

Really, nobody would learn any languages ever if it meant it was cruel to their parents and made them suffer - oh, no, their child can do something they can't! Their child can do something they can't join in with!

My Mum does childcare for me because she lives locally. My PILs don't: they live miles away. They have refused to babysit on many occasions because they're too busy (so I had a tooth abscess and had to have emergency dental treatment in London, leaving my DS with a friend because PILs couldn't help out). Fine, people have plans and arrangements. But you can't have it all your way.
I am, obviously, evil because I was brought up speaking another language (nasty work that, it should be banned) and I freakishly insist on speaking that other language with my DC and my PILs don't speak it; but there are issues on both sides.

MIL wouldn't take DS for a walk in the pram when he was little because he had a dummy and 'she is against them', didn't want to be seen with a child with a dummy. She wouldn't let me stay over with DS at their house whilst I was breastfeeding because 'breastfeeding is disgusting' and I might get milk on her furnishings.

*Confession: I bf him for ages just to annoy her.

This isn't really about language, it's about your relationship with your parents in law. You don't want them to take your DS out for whatever reason and you are hanging your hat on the language issue instead of thinking about why you don't want that and working on achieving a situation where they can spend time with him. You ought to be working on that.

If they want to offer him a drink, presumably they will show one to him. Or you could teach him (consciously teach him) that one word in advance of the trip. But you don't want to, becase you don't want them to take him at all. You are deliberatley damaging their relationship with him, because you don't like them much. And that's not the right thing to do.

So, really, this is about your relationship with your inlaws. YANBU to use your native language in your own home, but maybe YABU to take such delight in sticking it to your inlaws.

"What I am doing is speaking in my own language to my own DS. What's so weird about that?" Nothing. What's weird is the fac that his father does not speak in his own language to his own ds, he speaks in yours.

Your thread title is actually misleading, because as you say you wouldn't be teaching your child english - he would pick it up. But the title should actually read, "ibu that my dh doesn't speak english to his child even though english is his first language?"

You're twisting argument here for your own purposes. DH's learning a language to fluency isn't cruelty to his parents - nobody has said that. However, denying English to his toddler is a different matter.

Nobody has said that you are disrespectful of the English language AFAIK. But many are saying that you are being disrespectful of your child's right to a dual culture and to the grandparents' needs.

Your PILs do sound like a nightmare TBH, but I still think you are using the language card against them to annoy them, just as you have admitted in the bf case.

I don't understand your point of view at all.

My dh is flemish; dh's family is flemish; school etc all in flemish.

I am english and speak near enough fluent flemish (studying/working/socialising in flemish). My family are english and there is no way I would expect them to learn flemish (I found it hard enough!) and I am desperate for them to have a good relationship with my children.

So I speak english to my children and they are slowly learning to speak it; although flemish is at the moment still their preferred language. The benfits of being brought up to be bilingual are huge, and I am very happy to give my children this opportunity.

I think it's incredibly unfair of your dh is deny his own family the chance to get to know your dc by speaking in the same language - it's very unrealistic to expect them to become fluent in welsh.

Are you punishing them for not babysitting even though they live miles away? Because that's what it sounds like.

YABU

he lives in a Bilingual country (Wales), you are a bilingual family and he will have to lead a bilingual life. It's neglectful to only teach him one language if you are capable of teaching him two. You are putting him at a disadvantage.

Way to go belgo. What a lovely reasonable perspective.