to eradicate the words 'chavvy' and 'common' from the MN lexicon

[OrmRenewed]

They are lazy words. They mean 'anything that I don't like and am not'. If you dislike something enough to issue a sweeping and insulting comment about it, have the decency to give accurate and precise reasons for it.

Kaloki

Yep casuals was a dress thing - that's what I said. I also said that chav refers to class, education.

If I hear the word goth to me it's about an image and a scene. When I hear chav it implies something nasty and obviously far less superior than the person saying it.

Chav is used to label a person inferior in taste and hence in class and education.

Sade's trademark is her scraped back ponytail and her gold hoop earring - I wouldn't expect anyone to think of her as a chav.

"I think it's only clueless old ladies who are scared of goths"

Nah, chavs are too. Well, the ones who don't like kicking goth heads in.

Goth and Punk were musical movements that developed dress codes (very un-punk idea that) and to some extent philosophies that go with them. Some people ascribe certain behaviours to those groups.

'Chav' is a set of behaviours and attitudes sometimes associated with a certain kind of dress.

We used to have loads of classifications of people when we were at school. Each type was a distinct and certain type, and identified themselves by dress and behaviour. Humans are pretty tribal, really.

I was a rocker/indie kid. My characteristic behavours were drinking pints of snakebite and black and getting off with boys with long hair. I wore a lot of black, and mingled freely with goths, metallers etc.

The casuals were a different group, they went to different clubs, drank different drinks, had different clothes and hairstyles. This is the group that's now called chav.

This is basic stuff, yes?

Now I am just an archtypal middle aged overweight mummy, and Im not interesting enough to classify any more

I don't think I've met a miserable goth or a violent punk. Maybe I just cheer them up.

I wish someone would start a goth baby name thread. My DB & SIL wont tell us what name they have chosen for their September baby and it might give me a clue. [nosey] [impatient]

I've met violent punks and miserable goths.

I think maybe you need to get out more.

Goth Baby names?

Andrew, Wayne, Suzi.

I think I cheer them up.

Lucifer?

With my sunny dispoition and that.

Maybe you are a chav and so they are scared of you, a la kaloki.

They are being nice in order to get away ASAP

here

Don't take away my darkness!!

THere's a goth baby name thread now.. I'm worryingly actually considering some of them.

I only wear sports wear for sport though. I don't think I listen to the right music either. And I don't live on a council estate. I drink too much sometimes though. And I've got a fast hatchback.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Unless you are head to toe in (knock off) burberry with one of those giant gold clown necklaces then I think we can safely say you aren't a chav. Plus you have to listen to your music with everything turned down except the bass, which will of course be so loud it almost shakes you tooth diamante off.

I DO like a bit of bass, mind.

Good point but...

Well, yes, I do use it increasingly and it is lazy. I suppose that should stop. My 'Chavs' aren't poor and are probably not badly educated either though. My typical 'chav' would be driving a massive 4WD around in suburbia and talking in a loud, shrill, fake, 'posh' accent.

I am probably mis-using the word 'chav' terribly though, unless it really does mean 'anything that I don't like and am not'.

I only ever use it in private with DH (who has a very similar idea of what a chav is to me) so it will probably just remain our dirty, childish, little secret

ImSoNotTelling, I think you are right to a degree - the casuals, soul boys, whatever we called them, were the largely working class boys who were into black dance music, clubs, and expensive designer leisure wear, or sportwear as a fashion statement. Most kids who call themselves 'Chavs' today would identify with that, and they would be the closest comparison.

But the phrase 'casual' or 'soul boy' only really alluded to their tastes in clothes and music, whereas 'Chav' started off being more an observation/insult, meaning a feckless, poorly educated young person from a certain social demographic, who displayed dubious anti-social qualities. I think once the phrase came into common usage it was adopted by the WC kids themselves who, whether they fitted the demographic or not, were largely working class, and wore those clothes. They just latched onto the association with sportwear and chunky gold, bling and Burberry, and applied the term to themselves. Like the N word for black people, and the Q word for gay people. Who know whether 'Chavs' saw the irony?

I think if someone refers to themselves as a Chav, it's about tribal identity and what they wear. If someone else from a totally different demographic refers to someone as a Chav it's usually a comment/judgment on their lifestyle and class, or lack of it!

i LOVE common

For me, chav is a style of dress, totally.

If we're talking about behaviour eg people I know who get really pissed with their kids around, then have massive rows outside the pub etc. Then i say they're "rough". And these people are not necessarily poor etc.

And they don't dress chavvy. Their behaviour is what people seem to be idenitfying on here as chavvy though IYSWIM.

Mind you I do know a lot of different sorts of people

"If we're talking about behaviour eg people I know who get really pissed with their kids around, then have massive rows outside the pub etc. Then i say they're "rough". And these people are not necessarily poor etc."

I describe people like that as "twats", unles they are in chav clothes in which case they are "chav twats". If they were in punk clothes I'd call them "punk twats"