to eradicate the words 'chavvy' and 'common' from the MN lexicon

[OrmRenewed]

They are lazy words. They mean 'anything that I don't like and am not'. If you dislike something enough to issue a sweeping and insulting comment about it, have the decency to give accurate and precise reasons for it.

Carrie - people choose how to dress and behave; they don't choose their skin colour.

Honestly - comparing it to racism does those who've suffered from actual racism a massive disservice.

"oh course it's like racism, as your judging and putting down a whole section of society based on how they look etc."

No I'm not, just pointing out that they look like chavs, in the same way that someone with dyed black hair, thick black eyeliner and a black victorian dress on looks like a goth. Hardly discriminatory, it's a descriptive term.

Maybe I don't like chav clothes and so by saying it I'm not exactly commenting on how much I like their choise of outfit, but I can guarantee when they call me goth it isn't meant as a compliment either.

Oh, spare me, Carrie! People can't change their skin colour, the shape of their features (well, without radical surgery). They have full control over how they dress.

Not the same thing as racism as all.

ITA with 5dollar (me love you long time ).

But not everybody uses it to describe the way people dress...look at this thread ,at least one poster equates chav with council estates ..thats what I don't like

Not really anyone else's fault that someone has made up their own rules on language. Shouldn't stop the rest of us using it properly.

It is possible to move out of a council estate.

It is not possible to move out of black or brown skin, one's own features (non-surgically) or one's gender (well, transexuals excepted).

Nowt wrong with the word chav. And no it doesn't mean 'poor' or else students and the elderly would all be chavs.

It's a manner of dress, deportment, attitude etc.

As for demanding an exact definition of what common is, how about an exact definition of middle class or yah? If you're happy to use it - come on and define it.

This whole board is about criticising people be it the MIL or the horrible lady in the shop. But only if sportswear or fruit shoots etc are involved does criticising become 'looking down upon'. I'll criticise all day long thanks and don't need to be told who is and isn't fair game.

why should they have to move out of council houses or stop wearing tracksuits, so people do not look down on them though.

it's just the same type of narrow mindedness
where people lump a whole lot of people together and call them all the same, tar them all with the same brush.

"See I don't think that calling people goths is insulting them ,its just describing the way they dress"

Yes but the uninitiated can get mixed up and if you were to call an Emo or a rocker a 'Goth', quite a few of them would be very insulted!!

Well yes true ..ds is a rocker and not happy to be called an Emo or scene kid

They get called 'Treemo's in MK because they all congregate around a big tree in the city center

Luckily for me, I spent my goth years in Nottingham where, thanks to Rock City, the general public is more informed of the goth classifications.

"oh course it's like racism, as your judging and putting down a whole section of society based on how they look etc."

For it to be anything like racism they would have to be judging them based on their race, it's in the name.

roffle @ 'Treemo's'

I always favoured jitter. "Oi! Jiterrrrrrr!". I think that was a regional thing, though.

I guess calling a goth or a treemo or an emo, "jitter" would be the equivilent of my mum calling us beatniks

Lol @ Treemo ...I think my mum would call my ds a hippy

We say 'common' round here.

As in : Fuck me shes fucking common aint she?

Its like most words. It depends on who is using it and who its directed at.

I get a bit at the use of chav on MN when its used by someone who is affluent and lives a nice, safe, sheltered life. Its sneering and unpleasant. When its clearly used as a snobbish put down.

Its different if its one chav using it to describe another.

Probably illogical but thats the way it is.

II think we should use 'non-u' . As in: oh darling our neighbours are simply frightful! All Boden and no knickers - terribly non u my dear'

Yes! Lets all pretend with live in a stately home sometime between the wars.

Ok so if it isn't possible to give a precise definition of 'common' then I think my point is proved, that using that word is lazy short-hand for 'stuff I don't like'. It is too subjective to be a useful word and is simple unpleasant snobbery.

And as for snobbery being essential to give us the incentive to improve ourselves god help us! If the reason to 'improve' yourself is because of the fear of being called common I don't think I'd bother

Some of my ILs use 'non-u'. Ummm, what does it mean?

I think it means 'non-us' ie stuff we don't do So much the same as common but with a slightly upper-class tone. I suspect 'common' is a very non-u word

Orm can we hear your precise definition of middle class and rah please, tvm.

I haven't got one. I don't tend to use either word. I used them earlier in jest in response to a post saying that those words were as bad as common.

U means upper class and Non-U means non-upper class. Coined by Nancy Mitford, I believe...

Ah, that's it is it. OK. So yes, the same as 'common'.

I'm with the OP.

When I grew up we had 'casuals' (a bit naff and preppy but very smart) but it was a form of dress. Chav is a nasty term which implies lack of education, class etc.

I went to a 'well to do' girls school - a bunch of the bitches were referring to someone as 'common' with their noses in the air. I pointed out common meant usual and normal so they were too. They looked they they were going to vomit, got up walked off and I was ignored for the rest of the term. Suited me.

Chav is a word used lots on here I've noted.

You said you were both those things yourself. How can you be something that doesn't exist.

I dare say I think your own analysis is somewhat lazy in demanding that we aren't allowed to use words we can't precisely define.

Isn't all human discourse about using language in ways that isn't always pindownable? What a sad state of affairs if we are only allowed to use words from a pre approved list.

All language carries a judgement doesn't it - if we can't use words that describe groups of people then why not just scrap MN and indeed the internet. Then nobody would have to feel sneered at ever.