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to eradicate the words 'chavvy' and 'common' from the MN lexicon

267 replies

OrmRenewed · 02/06/2010 10:34

They are lazy words. They mean 'anything that I don't like and am not'. If you dislike something enough to issue a sweeping and insulting comment about it, have the decency to give accurate and precise reasons for it.

OP posts:
Willabywallaby · 03/06/2010 13:47

The term used round here is cakkers, but I think that has gypsy origins so probably racist.

southeastastra · 03/06/2010 13:49

kids from working class or disadvantaged backgrounds are scathing of intelligence?? and academic achievement. It's a defence mechanism against their own inferiority complexes.

do you really feel this? am i mis-reading your comments?

usualsuspect · 03/06/2010 13:53

The perception that children from wc backgrounds are scathing of intelligence is totally wrong ..ds went to a state school fed by several council estates ..the majority of his peers are now doing A levels ..so not my experience at all ..this includes chavs,wannabe gangstas goths etc

TiggyR · 03/06/2010 13:58

Sorry I think I've said it clumsily! I do think that some kids from disadvantaged backgounds, who are labelled habitual troublemakers in school do not believe they can or will achieve in education because they don't see it around them, or in their domestic environments. It is for 'other' people that they can't identify with.
So they fight against authority and well-meaning adults trying to make them conform to something they see no point in.

Ask anyone who has gone to a 'rough' school and been the class swot! They are often the target of bullying or scorn, and are not considered 'cool'.

'Too cool for school' sums it up, doesn't it? And I didn't coin that phrase!

katycarr · 03/06/2010 14:06

It is hard tiggy, I was that person 20 years ago and still am really.

I had to take a lot of flak from my peers for being bookish and wanting to do well in school. I was in top sets but none of my friends were and I did not feel comfortable with those children who were.

My family were not scathing of intelligence, they were proud of me but did not know what to do with me. There was no quiet place to study, no money for books, no day trips as we worked 7 days a week. I often had to take time off from school as I had to work to put money on the table, some teachers wrote me off as someone who skived school and was lazy.

When I applied to university although my parentswere proud it would have been much easier if I could have just gone out to work. My family didn't need a clever kid they needed someone who would earn money. Money was so short we did not have the advantage of thinking long term. To this day there is a conflict when I go home. My parents saw university as a path to riches, I would meet a rich man who would look after me and possibly study law and become rich myself. I wanted to go to university because I loved learning so I chose an arts subject. My mum was horrified, she was then equally horrified when I became a teacher. And then when I dumped a doctor to settle down with someone from a similar background to my self, well that almost killed her!

However I never really fitted in with the clever kids. I was supposed to go to Oxford, passed the interview and exam with flying colours but I could not handle being that far out of my comfort zone so turned down the place. Perhaps if I had role models, adults from my kind of background who had managed to succeed academically and "play the game" I would have taken that place. That is why I became a teacher and am very open about my background.

In most schools thatI have taught in there has been a huge divide between the outwardly "middle class" kids whose parents have professional backgrounds and those kids like me who come from the estates and would probably be labelled as "chavs" The outwardly working class kids spend their leisure time with their "chav" friends and then lesson time with the kids in the top sets who are from the more "middle class" backgrounds. They often hear people in the top set talking about their friends with contempt and derision, it must be very difficult.

I can remember sitting in my Oxbridge preparation classes being told that I was the Crème de la Crème of the school, that I was different from everyone else who was distinctly average. Everyone else in the room seemed to love it, I felt awkward and like a traitor to me friends.

usualsuspect · 03/06/2010 14:07

Maybe that attitude existed in the past ..I don't see any evidence of it any more ..there will always be kids that don't want to conform ... Its not fair to lump all WC kids in the same category

katycarr · 03/06/2010 14:15

I agree it is unfair to lump all WC in the same category, it would be daft for example to say that I don't value education or intelligence because I am working class, because I am a teacher. But those attitudes to still exist, having taught in some tough schools I had to battel against them daily.

TiggyR · 03/06/2010 14:26

Wasn't lumping them all in at all, sorry if it came across like that. As you will see from my previous posts on this thread about what it is to be a 'Chav' I take everyone on their own merits and I said that I do not think that being WC or living in social housing makes you automatically anything.

Katie, good post. I can relate personally to much of what you have said (though never was offered a place at Oxbridge! Damn!)

Interesting though, that you yourself admit that most of the 'Chavs' are in the bottom sets, whilst the MC ones are in the top. Of course we shouldn't make assumptions about someone's intelligence or ability to achieve in education, based on the social demographic of their parents, but time and time again we are faced with evidence that shows, rather depressingly, that when we do, we are often right.

I know it's largely about opportunity, but it has to be about desire and self-belief as well. That was my point!

katycarr · 03/06/2010 14:46

TiggyR Thu 03-Jun-10 14:26:53
Interesting though, that you yourself admit that most of the 'Chavs' are in the bottom sets, whilst the MC ones are in the top. Of course we shouldn't make assumptions about someone's intelligence or ability to achieve in education, based on the social demographic of their parents, but time and time again we are faced with evidence that shows, rather depressingly, that when we do, we are often right"

After my post I then thought to myself, that can't be right so I pondered some more on the make up of ability groups. Perhaps we assume that bright kids come from a certain kind of background, when maybe they don't. People make assumptions about my background and get it wrong. But I do think that there is a genuine problem, it was one that I came into teaching to address. I think a lack of female working class role models in schools is a problem in particular, in the schools I have worked in particularly.

TiggyR · 03/06/2010 14:50

Agreed.

southeastastra · 03/06/2010 14:53

or the lack of working class (or even middle class) male teachers in primary

katycarr · 03/06/2010 15:05

I have a "friend" who claims that most women who go into teaching have safe middle class lives and they become teachers for the pin money as it does not pay enough to support a family. I think he is talking crap, I am the major breadwinner on my teaching salary. But I do wonder if the pay puts men off.

TiggyR · 03/06/2010 15:12

I do think he has a point - sort of. There are loads of women who go into it after having a family beacuse they are bored, they want to do something that shows they are intelligent, and it fits around the children! That's not to say they can't be great teachers, but I don't think they all have the same deep vocation that you have, Katie.

katycarr · 03/06/2010 15:16

Yes tiggy but he was a twat so I can never agree with him, not in his presence anyway.

TiggyR · 03/06/2010 15:30

OK, then!

OrmRenewed · 04/06/2010 09:07

" also I do not think because I deem something / someone to be common or chavy I am insecure, I find it quite insulting that it is implyed that one uses these words to feel better about their own short comings
"

Ok well then it implies that you are a bit snobby and narrow-minded then. BTW does owning a 400k house prevent anyone being either 'common' or a 'chav'? And as for 'insulting' don't you find it insulting to call someone either of those things ?

OP posts:
porcamiseria · 04/06/2010 09:23

I AGREEE, sorry very late into this but I don't like a snobby tude on here sometimes

I think the way that xchav has become such a commun term is rather sad and nasty

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