AIBU to want more from the school system academically than getting children 'where they need to get to'?

[Cortina]

It seems to me that there is no concept in the state system that the child is the client with an entitlement to an education that will enable them to 'be the best that they can be'.

Rather the client is the state and this means that all curricula are geared towards a common set of standards too demanding for some and too easy for others.

I've been reading a lot recently that seems to chime with the above.

A good teacher can work within the system to ensure that children work at their own pace and make steady progress. It's got to be tough though with large class sizes and low level disruption (in our experience).

I keep hearing that I should be reassured my children will get to where 'they need to get to'. They will meet the average goal for the end of the key stages so not to worry and all is fine and dandy. Of course the teachers would like them to do better than this but are reluctant to take steps that would increase the likelihood of this happening IME (not through negligence but by their belief their way is the safest way.) We, the parents, try to do that at home ourselves it seems.

Thing is, I want them to do better than reach an expected target, I want them to absolutely fly, I want any latent talent to be discovered, I want them to be the absolute best that they can be. It is as if some teachers have forgotten the bigger picture? Or are too scared of negative consequences of stretching children? The danger is many children have a habit of delivering exactly what is expected of them, mine certainly seem to.

Is it too much to expect this to happen at a state school, should I be grateful with average academic results going forward? Do teachers ever under estimate children? In some cases they might not realise what they are capable of and perhaps under estimate their potential for fear of putting them off learning or lowering their self esteem if things go wrong? I believe children should be stretched, do I have this all wrong? (I read over in the primary section about this sort of thing with reading etc and children demonstrating they are capable of much more at home etc.)

I hate the thought that continuous assessment means that a child can be marked down if they do surprisingly well at Maths or English (KS1). I hate the thought a teacher has the power to 'decide' whether or not a child is below average, average, or above average and potentially the power to make an ability label stick. Of course this shouldn't happen because of continuous assessment etc, most teachers are good and dedicated I am sure, but this doesn't mean to say that there are not flaws in the system?

Do any teachers find the NC limiting? Is there a way to teach creatively around it in a state school without being reprimanded? I am beginning to wonder. I know that many here say they use it as a rough guide which is very encouraging. Is it wrong to want your child to be the best that they can be?

YANBU. I fully agree with you.

Of course its not wrong to want you child to be the best that they can be.

Education is very different to schooling - education is much broader, and has a lot to do with home environment, parental role models etc

Yes, it's perfectly possible to teach creatively in a state school - a good teacher is a good teacher, whatever school they're in. The most fantastically creative teaching I've ever seen has been in state schools.

The NC won't exist in a few years time anyway, or will be radically different.

I think you educate the child/ren yourself, school is entirely different.

It's good that things are changing. I guess I am talking about academics at school specifically, I believe in stretching children unless there are good reasons not to.

Friends of mine are really encouraged by home environment being a big factor in future success but wonder whether they can have as much positive impact as their children get older?

I think it is even worse when they get to secondary school. I am starting to get the distinct impression that once a child is on target to get the required level, there is very little effort to stretch them any further.

I am finding it quite frustrating and am worried that in my dds case she will be overwhelmed when she eventually had to do work which is hard as she has coasted through school so far...

Hi DecorHate, you say there 'is very little effort to stretch them further' why do you think this is?

I've yet no experience with the education system as my daughter is only 21 months, however, I find your post chimes with my worries too. I am already quite worried about how my dd's school experience will be reading about problems in the state sector and from listening to friends tales who have children in school. I guess what parents do is to hope that their children gets into a good school and if they don't (perhaps even if they do) supplement their education (in the broad sense of the word given by violethill) at home. I am at least thinking in those lines.

mamatomany even in an academic sense? If so to what degree?

Hi Riven thing is that doesn't seem to be the view/case in the private sector, there it seems the child is the client.

YANBU. I agree completely.

Snuppeline my expectations are very high. My friends don't seem to expect much at all and this I find very disconcerting. I saw so many able children fail at my own school many years ago because it was decided that they weren't academically capable (many were extremely capable.) I assumed things had radically changed for the better. Everyone has different views and perspectives I guess.

Cortina, I am assuming they focus their efforts on getting everyone to the same standard - after all that is what they will be judged on - the percentage getting grades C or above at GCSE. Obv it is in the schools interest to get 100% at C grade rather than 90% at C and 10% at B, for example (not suggesting that those are realistic percentages btw!)

Riven I'd have more confidence in the private sector - given a choice - developing my child's potential academically and otherwise. The smaller class sizes make it easier for a start and more of a zero tolerance for low level disruption/bad behaviour.

Sorry should have said 80% C, 10% B, 10% D

I agree with you 100%.

I had a law lecturer who believed that state schools churned out compliant people who had been so worn down just so did as they were told, the private system churned out people who ran the country and were free thinkers.

YANBU

DecorHate so it's league table pressure that might stop them developing and stretching individual children?

bellechocolatefluffybun I think that's how it worked historically at any rate.

Especially in the academic sense from what I have seen so far, we are crippling ourselves to put three through private primary because I have the same concerns about secondary mentioned by Decorhate and am hoping that by paying for the cheaper primary to lay the foundations they will at least have a good grasp of the basics and that will see them through.
With state schooling we were spending a fortune I would say on ticking the boxes with day trips to enhance topic work which literally just scratched the surface, topping up music lessons, swimming lessons, tutoring to keep the maths and english lessons interesting/progressing.
I genuinely think it will only get worse as they get older but am at a loss what to do about it unless we can win the lottery.
State school was very good at getting the children to use their imaginations and work/play creatively and maybe i'm doing them a huge injustice but I felt I could do that at home.

I (sadly, as I am a secondary school teacher) agree with the op. However, I will say that I have seen exceptionally bright (and not so bright but motivated) children do well, no matter what the school/teachers were like - so don't despair. Your children's success in life will always be more to do with them and their attitude plus your family attitude than a teacher they see for one hour a day.

The NC is a load of bollox but a lot of older and wiser teachers only pay lip service to it anyway (except when they are being inspected etc).

YANBU. The current trend to educate according to the lowest common denominator a disgrace and the NC far too lacking in breadth and depth. Whatever happened to free thinking?

It's not wrong to want your child to be the best they can be, schools have a 'one size fits all' policy though so if you have a child that deviates from the 'norm' then it's difficult for them.

I really disagree Korkii, an exceptionally bright child doesn't do well anywhere. On paper they may achieve top marks but behind the paper there's a child bored out of their skull because they are not given work that challenges them and there's a parent who's battling to get that child to do their homework or not pretend to be sick so they don't have to go to school. School's really tough for an exceptionally bright child, can you imagine spending 5 minutes doing work which should take you all lesson and having to spend the rest of that lesson doing nothing? This isn't challenging. Then there's the bullying. Boredom isn't a good skill for any child to leave school with.