to think it was a mistake to give a damn about education?

[AbbyLubber]

Ok, I know some will really disagree about this, but I am fed up. Really furious. I earn a solid, not great wage; so too dh. We have two children. We've scrimped and struggled and sweated to pay for them to go to independent schools, because they are both bright and because here in Oxfordshire the local state schools in our area are dreadful, really dreadful. We're almost at the end of our rope financially. My son has a scholarship, but the schools say we earn too much to qualify for a bursary, though they also admit that we don't actually earn enough to pay the fees over the long term.

WTF? AIBU to think that if we don't earn enough to pay the fees then that should BE a benchmark for help? I get that it's political, that they want to keep their charitable status, but surely this is madness? Perhaps I should add that we don't have a fine art collection we can sell, or rich parents... as per the ludicrous inquiry form the school sent around.

Isn't ANYONE else cross that soon unemployed single mums and the rich will be the only ones able to send their dcs to a good school of their choice - unless of course you pay in the other way, by buying a 675k house in the tiny Cherwell catchment area? Not that I'm against unemployed single mums and their kids - the more the merrier - but I wonder now why I worked full-time when my dcs were small to earn a decent wage.

'The OP's problem, if I understand her correctly, is with the unfairness of a bursary policy that says although we acknowlegde you are not welathy enough to pay our fees, you are still not poor enough to be awarded one of our bursaries.'

I get this point, too. It's one that applies to many areas, not just bursaries.

YABU. You seem to think that your choice is

(a) the school should hand out charity to you or

(b) you shouldn't have to give a toss about education.

So, what? You think that you should only care about your children's education if someone else is prepared to pay school fees for you?

School is, for most children, a tiny part of their education. Most of it comes from the environment in which they're brought up, whether they have parents who care about education, who talk to them, who encourage them, who have books around the place, who act as if education is important.

If you think it's a mistake to give a damn about education, then you're failing your children, private school or no private school.

Sorry it was pages ago but this comment really me :
"Unemployed single mums only get their kids onto a bursary if that child is SERIOUSLY gifted.

This is because the people who run independent schools are bright enough to realise that a future brain surgeon could sink without a trace if she's being raised by a thick twat, goes to a shit school and is surrounded by idiots."

I am not an unemployed single mum myself but if I was I would be very offended by the unemployed single mum = thick twat.

WRT OP, I 100% agree with Gerbilmeasles.

We can just afford to send our Dcs to an independent school, so we do. We do this because although our local primaries are good we belive that our particular independent school is better. Our children are there because I think that they will be given the opportunity to excel at whatever they choose, whether that be Maths, Mandarin, film making,drama, pottery, sport or music. This is our particular school, not any independent school.

They are not there because they are particularly bright, quiet, shy etc, etc but because we unashamedly think the school is better.

It is expensive, we can only just, just, just afford it but accept that it's our responsibility to afford it, no one else's. In the end we don't have to send them there, it's a choice we are able to make.

Op, if you are really concerned about your local state school and feel stressed by the cost of inependent school then home school and tutor.

State schools should be smaller. They should have smaller classes, more teachers, and a less restrictive curriculum. They should finish later and have more sport. I don't care a fig for the class or the wealth of the children, only for their education.

The attitude towards independent education on MN is very irritating but so are the phoney reasons people give for 'having' to send their children to independent schools. None of us have to. We do it because we think it's better. Some of us want to do it but can't. Some people wouldn't want to touch an independent school because of the elitism it represents. We should be honest and frank in our discussions and not bother talking about it if we feel the need to make excuses for our decisions.

liongirl - a completely honest, non-hypocritical reason for sending your DC private.

I never said it was a conspiracy. I just said some people are very happy for us to continue to have a 2-tier education system which advantages the few. And that is true.

UnquietDad, I agree, there shouldn't be a two tier system.

Someone should look at both systems, take the best from each and create a stunning state education system. I really do think, finances aside that the answer is small schools, small classes and a focus on holistic education not box ticking, over examination and political correctness.

abby, if you call the LA and tell them you want to be an LEA or Community Governor, they will bite your hand off.

only parent governors have to have children at the school. plenty of opportunity for anyone who wants to be involved. not sure what it's like in oxon, but certainly most places struggle to fill their LEA/ Community governor vacancies.

Smaller schools and smaller classes are a great idea in principle and indeed something the Lib Dems were advocating in their manifesto.

In practice, though, they mean more children being turned away from "preferred" schools, or schools expanding to take up the slack.

(I asked a Lib Dem I know about this and he agreed it was likely to mean more mobile classrooms and more teachers in the short term. All of which costs money, of course.)

Interestingly, a lot of parents I know don't seem that bothered about small schools and small class sizes - if the local "desirable" school is a big one with overcrowded classes they are happier for a child to go there than for them to go to the school a few miles away which has a worse reputation but classes of 20 (because nobody wants to go there)...

So small class sizes may be a red herring for some middle-class parents - those who know their bright, interested kids won't get lost and unattended-to in a class of 35.

"We've scrimped and struggled and sweated to pay for them to go to independent schools..we don't actually earn enough to pay the fees over the long term. "

But how was this supposed to work out then? If you would not be earning enough to continue paying the fees for your dc, why did you send them there? Or were you relying on them winning scholarships, getting bursaries at some stage to carry it through to the end?

Of course people would want to send their children to a great large school rather than a rubbish small one. That goes without saying. I would too.

If we were to look a 'glass half full' example of two excellent schools, one large, maybe of 2,500 students and a smaller one of 600 students then I would prefer the smaller school for lots of pretty obvious reasons. It would only be of maximum advantage if the classes were small of course. Maybe a good compromise would be large schools with small classes?

I am certain, beyond certain that money in state education should be spent first on teachers, teachers and more teachers. No one needs an interactive white board or a flipping LEA for that matter!

The health service in the UK is a two tier system, those with money jump the queue. I can't see any threads criticising this. There's a 12 week wait in some areas to see a consultant. If you have private health insurance or pay the cash then you can be seen within a week. Isn't this just the same thing?

Oh, I just love it when people pile in with 'everyone I know who went to private school is a druggie/alkie/waster' (Bobbalina).

UQD, your children may be as thick as pigshit, but mine are future drug addicts and teenage mothers (as a result of girls' independent schools not giving them any real-life knowledge of men ).

Oh, and did I mention that I am a SAHM, so am making no use whatsoever of the 13 years of expensive education that my parents provided for me?

Bah.

UQD, I'm sure there are people who think along those lines. I don't know any of them, though, despite having children at two private schools.

BeenBeta, you are one of the few people on MN who talks any sense generally - and particularly on this thread (and the politics ones).

It's exactly the same thing, belle. And don't get me started on dentistry...

Dentistry! ARGH!!

I have a very, very bright boy. He's years ahead. He's privately educated because he will disturb a class with his questions and he'll thrive on all the activities they have on offer. The catchment school is 'aiming for a 24% pass rate' this year, the Osfted report said children told the inspectors they felt unsafe at school. His school is open for longer so I don't have to worry about childcare. Finances do come into this though, I wouldn't send him if I knew I couldn't afford it, nor would I have any more children because I don't want to find myself in the position where I am reliant on a scholarship/bursary that may or may not happen.

Belledechoc, I think it is. The interesting question is, why don't people get as upset about it? I wonder whether it's because it's less two tier in a way.
If you're in an emergency situation you will often see the same Drs in the same operating theatres etc.

We see our children's education as equally important but unless we can find a way of paying for it the educational eqivalent of Gt Ormands Street will never be available to us. There is also private health insurance which although expensive is more affordable than school fees.

But not everyone can afford private health insurance, and as Betty says, in dentistry alot is only availiable to those who can pay. If a patient needs to have a tooth removed then if they can't pay then they are left with a space.
In an emergency people can still access a state school

Sorry, Ormond!

Interactive white boards are pretty damn useful, though, liongirl. I use mine all day, every day.

Other than that, I agree totally with your refreshingly honest post!

I strongly disapprove of private education, honestly wouldn't consider it for my kids even if we won tomorrow's lottery. But I'm quite able to respect that other people believe in it & should have the right to pay through the nose for it.

Don't see the OP's logic that she'd like her dc's private school to magically become affordable. If it did, it would become equally accessible to the children she's currently paying to avoid...

Belledechoc, not everyone can afford private H insurance but more people can than can afford school fees.

People do get very annoyed about dentistry.

In an 'emergency' people can still access a state school but it is unlikely to be the best of the best.

These are the reasons why I think people get more upset about independent education than private medical insurance.

I don't think she's paying to avoid certain children raven.

I didn't mean to say that state schools are for emergencies. Sorry

All schools are a lottery, there's good ones and poor ones in both the state and private sector. I've removed my son from a couple that have not been right for him (after major stress). He's also been in a state school where he was very badly bullied. I could move him to another state school, then another but to be honest I'd rather not. He wants to talk, he wants to ask questions as this is how he learns. There are teachers who want a quiet child so imagine what school is like for him. He doesn't disturb the class, he just wants his teacher to have respect for him. In a class of 30 can you see a teacher having the time for him?

no I don't think so either. She is paying for her dc to get a good education which she doesn't believe her local schools provide.
Nowhere has she mentioned the behaviour of dc at the local state schools or anything like that, she fears they don't cater for bright dc by the sounds of it.

I think its sad to think that people who choose to send their children to state schools don't care about their education. Just because a school doesn't have great results doesn't mean it isn't a great school.

Parents who care about their children's education are more hands on. They listen to their children read, help them with home work, take them for walks or to the library. SHOCK! HORRROR! even families on low incomes do this.

You don't have to send a child to private school for them to get an education.

ravenAK - I agree with you about white boards actually but I just wish class sizes were the very top priority. My classes never achieved more with an int white board but it did make our lives easier and a lot more colourful! Small classes and amazing facilities would be great.

Yes, OP's post is very strange regarding the fees.