to think it was a mistake to give a damn about education?

[AbbyLubber]

Ok, I know some will really disagree about this, but I am fed up. Really furious. I earn a solid, not great wage; so too dh. We have two children. We've scrimped and struggled and sweated to pay for them to go to independent schools, because they are both bright and because here in Oxfordshire the local state schools in our area are dreadful, really dreadful. We're almost at the end of our rope financially. My son has a scholarship, but the schools say we earn too much to qualify for a bursary, though they also admit that we don't actually earn enough to pay the fees over the long term.

WTF? AIBU to think that if we don't earn enough to pay the fees then that should BE a benchmark for help? I get that it's political, that they want to keep their charitable status, but surely this is madness? Perhaps I should add that we don't have a fine art collection we can sell, or rich parents... as per the ludicrous inquiry form the school sent around.

Isn't ANYONE else cross that soon unemployed single mums and the rich will be the only ones able to send their dcs to a good school of their choice - unless of course you pay in the other way, by buying a 675k house in the tiny Cherwell catchment area? Not that I'm against unemployed single mums and their kids - the more the merrier - but I wonder now why I worked full-time when my dcs were small to earn a decent wage.

You can't afford it so you can't have it.

Bet you can afford to rent in a better area where the state schools are fine though. There is no way that with two in private school that you can't afford a more expensive rent.

But I see from your diddums attitude that you expect to have it all

Move house to a better catchment area and rent.

or sell a kidney

Boo hoo you can't afford private school

roffle @ kidney

OP I did soooooo hope you were on a wind up...

you could always HE if the local toughs are soooooo utterly ghastly

I can see your point.

My exBIL had a full scholorship to the local private school (I presume it was actually a schlorship and a bursary on top). His parents paid nothing - not even his train fare (he was extremely clever and sporty so I can see why they wanted him to boost their results). I thought that was a bit odd as the only reason why the family fell into bursary level was because exMIL chose not to work (teacher) after her first was born so the family only had one income, even though both children were are secondary school (exDH went to the local sink secondary and did just as well academically and professionally - they didn't know about this in time for him apparently).

I have no doubt that MIL could have worked, she just chose not to. I am also sure that if she had, they would have had to pay something.

Unquiet Dad

sorry
scholarship

You can't afford it. Save on fees and move to another area. I refuse to believe that the only place in Oxfordshire with decent state schools is Cherwell.

"Yes. We should all have independent school fees paid for our children! It'll be brilliant! "

paisleyleaf I agree

YAB completely U

It's a great idea, schools where you don't have to pay money, the place is fully paid for and it's open to everyone... oh, silly me, they exist! They're state schools. That is what the vast majority of people have to use as private school is prohibitive cost wise for all but the wealthiest section of society.

You can't afford private school? Tough bloody luck.

So that will be 90% or what? of British parents of school age children having their fees paid by...whom? Yeah, let's go for it!

Don't be so hard on the OP, her children are seriously gifted .

If you child is so good the cream will always rise to the top.

I kinda agree with some parts of this. Of course nobody is entitled to private education. I never said they were, and never meant it.

But don't ANY of you feel that there's something weird about the flight to it? Well, not if you've already decided that it's due to snobbery, I guess.

lauriefairycake, rent in Oxford is no less than a mortgage. More, actually, because it's so very much a university town. If I could have done that, I'd have done it aaages ago.

Isn't everyone entitled to a good education? All children? Yours, mine? Or are you just saying that because others don't have one, nobody should? Seems kinda futile. Shouldn't we be maximising the number of good schools and maximising access to them?

carolondon, I totally lack belief in the power of a middle-class mum wiht a 50 plus hour working week to change anything. You guys have also pretty much shown me why. My bet is that you would react in this general way if I said the maths teaching was not much good. Ywho are you to complain? who am I to complain? Why should you complain? See? I very much hope others have different experiences; I don't know much, but the responses above haven't exactly filled my cup with hope.

You sound like you are just a teensy bit peeved that with hindsight you didn't go for the 675K/Cherwell option. Well we all make mistakes. Sorry op, YABU.

Flight to what, Abby?

come on everyone, be fair, op's children deserve better than the local school because they are so much better than the kids that go there, and the op cares more than those parents do, and shes willing to chook a bit of cash at it, not enough though

If you werent paying any fees you cud poss cut back hours and have the extra time to boost the education maybe?

Abby, everyone's entitled to a good education. In lots of countries most kids don'T even get one. Britain provides an education, a state education, but its underfunded and not managed very well from what I can tell. YOu have to lobby to improve this.

Ok, private school fees for two children = £18,000 per annum roughly.

Are you trying to say that with an extra £1500 per month you couldn't afford to live in a better area?

Sorry, don't believe it.

Jaysus, you AB so very U. Also, not true about that cost of houses in the Cherwell area: there are plenty of cheaper houses and flats around there. In any case, there are other good state secondaries in Oxford and a lot of not very good private schools.

AbbyLubber - I think you feel very resentful that, despite working very hard, you are unable to really afford a great education for your DCs. I really, really sympathise. I think it is immensely difficult to want something very badly and for it to be outside your reach; the problem is exacerbated by the fact that the quality gap between private and state education is apparently very significant in your area.

You do know, though, that there are some excellent state schools in the UK? Could you not possibly envisage moving near one?

How do you know the state schools are so poor if you haven't used them?

Well, Abby, a lot of us are in the situation where we have to make the best of the situation, because paying private school fees or moving to an expensive area simply isn't an option. Do you suppose that means we have all given up on our children's education and accepted that they will never learn anything?

My take is that my children's school is only one part of their education. I want it as good as possible, certainly, but there is only so much I can do to change it. Another part is what I can do for them at home, by providing interesting conversation, good books, trips to the theatre and a general attitude that learning is exciting.

And the most important part is what they do for themselves.

btw dh did get a scholarship to a very good independent school. He was very happy there and clearly a very bright boy, but he didn't work hard enough, however hard they tried to make him (I have read his school reports). He failed his A-levels.

Dd does not have anything like his chances: not only does she attend a comprehensive without the same facilities, she is also chronically ill and misses a lot of time out of school. But dd does the work without waiting for other people to motivate her and I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't make all the difference.

You can take a horse to water and all that... My MIL thought she had done everything needed for dh by getting him into a good school. I think I have actually done more for dd by encouraging her to read for herself and not rely too much on other people.

Hell, no, BabyDubs. I never said anything like that. This is absolutely not down to snobbery.

I wasn't born especially rich and I wasn't especially enamoured of the alleged social advantages of private school. I'd rather my kids went to ANY school wiht committed, caring teachers. I have no real interest in who or what their friends are as long as they are happy.

I bet most kids everywhere have incredibly caring parents. I NEVER said or impolied that they didn't. But - as above - I'm not convinced that even the most caring parents have much power to change things in schools. And I've never been able to afford N Oxford house prices. A mortgage on a 675 k house has always been beyond my or our reach. It's really a lot more than schoolfees.

And I didn't mean or intend to say anything about single mothers as such. In fact I said explicitly that they should absolutely qualify, and I get that bursaries may not be enough. I just don't see why the criteria should be 'from the lowest income possilbe' given that nearly ALL of us can't really afford it. Can someone explain? I also don't get your collective acquiescence. WHY aren't you all out there screaming at the House of Commons? Rather than making a virtue of compliance? And erm rather than screaming at me? Wouldn't YOU do better to scream at the actual problem-makers?

Of COURSE I'm angry about the state of the local state schools, which I btw toured paintstakingly 10 and again 2 years ago, read the Ofsted reports, and know attendees at. But I have -= as said above - NO hope of making any difference to them.