to think it was a mistake to give a damn about education?

[AbbyLubber]

Ok, I know some will really disagree about this, but I am fed up. Really furious. I earn a solid, not great wage; so too dh. We have two children. We've scrimped and struggled and sweated to pay for them to go to independent schools, because they are both bright and because here in Oxfordshire the local state schools in our area are dreadful, really dreadful. We're almost at the end of our rope financially. My son has a scholarship, but the schools say we earn too much to qualify for a bursary, though they also admit that we don't actually earn enough to pay the fees over the long term.

WTF? AIBU to think that if we don't earn enough to pay the fees then that should BE a benchmark for help? I get that it's political, that they want to keep their charitable status, but surely this is madness? Perhaps I should add that we don't have a fine art collection we can sell, or rich parents... as per the ludicrous inquiry form the school sent around.

Isn't ANYONE else cross that soon unemployed single mums and the rich will be the only ones able to send their dcs to a good school of their choice - unless of course you pay in the other way, by buying a 675k house in the tiny Cherwell catchment area? Not that I'm against unemployed single mums and their kids - the more the merrier - but I wonder now why I worked full-time when my dcs were small to earn a decent wage.

Well, maybe not explicitly.

But IME what makes some state schools grim is that they are overloaded with children whose family ethos is one of NOT giving a damn about education - often based on generations of negative experience.

So you do quite quickly get a downward spiral going - teachers & parents who could otherwise be a positive influence go elsewhere.

I'm not saying it's not an entirely understandable response, but it does have the effect of polarising the problem.

I think this thread is about the people in the middle, if you don't earn alot then you get alot of help, if you earn alot then you don't need help. What about the ones in the middle?
Have you read the thread ReallyTired?

Alot of schools don't cater for really bright children ZZZ.

belledechoc - I agree, all schools are a lottery.

I can't belive you really think that most teachers who teach classes of 30, state or private, wouldn't have respect for a well behaved, chatty and inquisitive child.

You have clearly had very unfortunate experiences.

but why are school such a lottery?

Is this what Swedish dp would say too, are there schools such a lottery? Denmark?

(I have no idea btw, I am just wondering)

are their schools..

ravenak, I agree, agree, agree!

The spiral you speak of where families and teachers who could have a positive influence go elsewhere is too real.

If no one could 'opt out' perhaps things would get better everywhere. I just think it would take so long for 'catchment ares' to go that it would take an age for the schools to 'even out'.

Our children only have one chance at their education and I wouldn't be happy to to put my child in a school where their being there would benefit society as a whole but not the child as an individual.

I know this is selfish and not at all helpful and we are perhaps exactly the people you describe. As teachers and parents we have recently left the state sector. Not because it was awful, not beacause our schools weren't great but because our new life, on the 'other side' is so much better - certainly from a very selfish, career/family life perspective.

Yup. He's happy at the school he's currently at, the only problem is that it's a private church school. He started with them knowing we didn't share their faith but respected and followed their values (kindness, curtosy, respect etc), it was fine to start off with until the head tried to convert ds. It was a compromise as I just wanted him in a school where he wasn't being bullied.

I don't know why they are a lottery, it's the million dollar question. Parental input plays a massive part I think. Ignored children are not necessarily able to work well in a classroom or playground environment.

YABU but I sympathise and have read the thread. Marlborough in Woodstock is very good and easy to get into Oxford. Witney and Thame also have pretty good schools.

Just to say I've just been approved as a school governor in Oxfordshire. It has taken 18 months, 16 of which were waiting for a response from the LEA. I'm going to help at a primary school so I don't know if secondary is different but worth applying soon if its something you're interested in.

Belledechoc, really hardcore religion would be very uncomfortable even for moderate 'believers' but maybe the fact he isn't being bullied gives the 'faith approach' a thumbs up. It this school is the only one he's not been bullied at, perhaps the Church aspect has something to be said for it. Was the head taking your DS through a particular process in order to convert him?

She was trying to convince him that 'God' made the world. He was told he should try to believe.

He's moving to a fab (private) secondary in September, I am a little nervous to be honest. Despite all the religion it's been a really good school for him, he feels respected and it shows in how much he cares and helps the other children. I don't know if moving him will put him back to square 1.

Belledechoc, I can see why you want to move your DC, feeling so strongly about the religious element. It seems such a shame though, considering it has been such a great educational establishment for him. If it doesn't fit with your family ethos though, it won't be a comfortable fit.

You've obviously had lots of experiences with different schools and I'm sure you will have made the right choice. Good luck to your DS!

Sorry, I see, he's moving up to Secondary. Great time for a new start with no religion!

They only go up to age 13 anyway so he'd need to move then anyway. All of his friends are moving to different secondaries in September aswell so I though it best he moves now so he can make some friends, I think it's really hard to start a new school when the other children have been there for a couple of years.

This is such an odd thread.

It started off with an OP who is very cross that the independent school she enrolled her DC in costs money.

Which has been quickly followed up by a poster who sent her child to a religious school and found out that it entailed religion ...

I think you're right. Much better for him to be new with everyone else. Don't be nervous, talk to the teachers and keep lines of communication open. I'm sure the teachers will be working very hard to plan lots of settling in activities to make sure everyone has a lovely start.

hee hee Quattro

I mentioned upthread that I home ed my dcs. I have to say I am highly dissatisfied with the level of education they are recieving at home from a non qualified person who hasn't been CRB checked and has pissed about on mumsnet all day

I tell you what would make a difference - if governing bodies had more parents on them, and more parents stood for election.

That would kick ass. And we'd end up with much better schools all round (state and private).

...and can't even spell "receiving"

I have to say, ime, parent governors are by no means always the way to solve a school's problems

quite often they want to force through their own personal agenda and are concerned mostly with the welfare of their own dcs, and not the whole school

(disclaimer- I know there are a lot of dedicated, knowledgeable and thorough governors about. But that's by no means all)

SHJ, in the spirit of the thread, I feel you should write a letter to yourself. You need to ask yourself when you propose to do SATs. And you need to be concerned about the extra-curricular activities on offer. Actually, never mind the extra-curricular activities, I'd throw in some serious questions about the curricular activities.

My point is that private schools aren't all they're cracked up to be. People who haven't been to private schools themselves but send their kids because they think it must be better are naiive. I know this first hand. I'm just trying to say don't bust a gut trying to pay school fees, don't fool yourselves that it's some golden key to life you are giving your kids.

Parents are often not very objective, me included. I'd find it hard not to act in the interets of my own child above the interests of the whole school, particularly if the rest of the governing body was doing the same!

The thread evolved Quattro.
I knew it was a faith school, I'm raising my child to be considerate, understanding and thoughtful which are the morals which underpin the school. They knew we didn't share their faith. At least I didn't go the whole hog, get him baptised and take him to church for years so the priest could sign a letter saying we were of their faith and regular church people just so he could get a place in a faith school. I've always been very honest and open with them.

Bobbalina, you just can't generalise. Some private schools are wonderful places. Some state schools are wonderful places.

If you're actually saying that you shouldn't send your child to a school just because you have to pay for it, then I agree.

On this note, I don't think the only reason for sending a child to a state school should be because you don't have to pay for it.

We should be making informed choices, based on what we know of our children, whether we are looking at state or private schools. We should be choosing a school because it suits a particular child.

The sad thing is that in the state sector choice is sadly lacking.