To expect the Doctor to respect my wishes?

[loumum3]

I have not vaccinated my youngest child. I have done this after much research and made an informed decision. The Doctor's surgery has phoned me several times now and written requesting I go in for a discussion about this. I haven't got time for a visit to discuss this, nor do I want to so I said if I had to, I could talk about it on the phone....I have had the Doctor on the phone this afternoon grilling me about my choices, really trying to scare me into having the jabs done and trying to make me feel bad. She cannot see my point of view at all and has been very rude.

Is is really too much to expect a Doctor to respect the decisions I make about my own children ?

Has anyone else experienced this ?

Sassybeast, I presume that a person could have the relevent vaccinations as an adult if they wanted/needed them for employment reasons, couldn't they?

Genuine question, not sure, but I'd imagine this is the case.

Vallhalla - on a mission to find out!

Another thing, Sassy. Many years ago, in my late teens or early 20's, I temped at a large London teaching hospital. I worked as a receptionist in Outpatients and was never asked if I'd had any jabs. Clearly times have changed.

Thing is, vaccine damage does exist. There's even a compensation scheme for it. My sister, an LD nurse, cares for some patients who have it written VERY clearly in their medical records - their brain damage was caused by vaccination. Thankfully the particular vaccines involved were phased out (think one was the whooping cough jab in the 60s or 70s?) but it is certainly true that children can be damaged by vaccines. It's not as simple as 'people who don't vaccinate are bad and people who do are good'.

Vaccines are medicines and just like any other medicine they have the potential to cause harm as well as benefit.

Every time you take a medicine, you have to weigh up the risks. Do I need this medicine? What are the potential side effects and how likely are they to affect me?

The decision about whether to take a drug will be different for every person and every person is entitled to make up their own mind. When that person is a baby or child, obviously their parent has to make the decision on their behalf.

Personally, I weighed up the risks, listening to my colleagues at the time who were expert reviewers in drug safety and who said MMR was safe as far as the evidence that existed showed but the safety studies were insufficient. I chose to give ds single vax, including rubella, in order to limit any risks as far as I could while protecting him and other children. That decision was right for my ds in his circumstances. But someone who has one vaccine damaged child already, or who has a family history of auto-immune disease, is fully entitled to make a very different decision.

There's an MNer whose ds was damaged by vaccination connected with a history of severe eczema - she believes the very strong antibiotics he was put on to deal with the (potentially fatal) eczema contributed to his development of autism. And she knows quite a lot about this as she has a PhD in biochemistry (IIRC) and is studying for a masters, I think, in an area of research that relates to autism. Sadly she doesn't tend to post on these threads any more as she's too worn out arguing with the vehement pro-vaccine 'everyone who doesn't immunise is evil' brigade. Who are just as short-sighted as the 'all vaccines are evil' brigade. Life - and medical science - is more complicated than either of those approaches suggests.

Had I met a customer who had refused to have his brakes replaced against my advice when I was a service manager to the motor trade I would have been professional enough to explain my reason for considering it necessary and then left it at that if he/she had declined. I'd have been sacked if I'd called him selfish!>>>

Really? See, if I knew the brakes were faulty and he was putting both himself and other road users at risk, I wouldn't give him back his keys, and good luck to anyone who tried to sack me for it. Thats because I believe in social responsibility as well as looking out for me and mine.

Thanks Val. I wouldn't suggest you weren't being considered and thoughtful, that's a different thing. Not sure if the breaks analogy works (presumably you are well within your rights to phone the police if someone tries to drive off in an MOT fail car?). But I think a health worker ought to be able to put the case well enough that they don't need to start calling anyone selfish. It's not professional, as you say.

Side issue, but I find it a bit unsettling that the risk of autism might be set against the risk of measles and come out top, but I don't have an autistic child so perhaps it's not my place to say anything stronger on that count.

One thing I don't get about some of those who choose not to vaccinate (for non-med reason obv) - you've made a maverick decision, an individualistic decision at odds with both policy, the medical establishment, the population as a whole (and the evidence but that's a whole other discussion). You've decided to go against the tide.

So why do get so upset and sensitive when health professionals challenge that decision? From what I see the OP has received several phone calls and explained her decision in person twice. That's hardly the Spanish Inquisition. If you are happy with your choice why would a couple of sharp words from a Health Visitor be so upsetting or a lecture from a receptionist insulting? I don't understand why one would be so breezy and devil may care about potentially fatal diseases yet a phone call from a GP or being 'bombarded' with letters is too much for one's delicate sensibilities.

In other words: suck it up.

I'm with your doctor on this. These are diseases that can kill children and if enough people made the decision that you have then many children would die. I don't think that your doctor should have to respect your decision when your decision is selfish.

I agree with edam - there are risks with any vaccine and you have to make a decision for you and your dcs that is right for you all.

I have no prblem with people who do not give their children and vaccines I only find it strange when they immunise their dcs as babies aand then say it is too much for their toddlers.

I think that the decision not to vaccinate is a selfish one and as I don't respect your views I don't blame your doctor for not doing so either.

Oh that's bollocks Pixie! My kids and I work with rescue dogs, I've owned pets all my life, been bitten by rats, hamsters, a dog, my DD2 is a demon with hammers and old bits of wood... and rusty nails. We're still here!

Those 280,000 people a year who die from tetanus obviously don't play with enough pieces of wood.

Op you are NOT being unresonable to wish to have your cchoices heard by your GP if they try to debate it again give them a firm no thank you and leave it there.

you do however need to grow a thick skin with this one and stand firm in your principles

We do have private healthcare, Pixie, though it isn't for the reason you've given.

saslou what I was trying to say is that I do appreciate that some people wish not to have their child vaccinated, and I know about vaccine damage and that there is an actual Government compensation fund for it, as another poster has said. I am extremely sympathetic to people who didn't have the MMR given to their children. I also appreciate that the NHS is funded by the people.

The point I was trying to make is: Given that the NHS obviously thinks that immunisation is the best - and safest - way of tackling various diseases, the NHS or State could make a case for:

• refusing school entry for unvaccinated children (I think they do in America?)

• banning single vaccines re the MMR issue (I know that does not apply in the OP's case)

• refusing to treat illnesses if the child could have been vaccinated against them but their parents declined without good reason (ie vaccine damage in the family)

But they do not do any of those things. Because they do believe in free choice.

So looking at the broad picture, a couple of phone calls trying to persuade people to have their children vaccinated is not something to get het up about.

OP - I'd suggest you say sweetly to the Doctor "Oh, we've discussed this before. Do you not remember? Would you like me to put it in a letter?" Then do so and every time she rings thereafter say pleasantly: "It's all in the letter in my notes. Now I must fly..."

As the aunt of a child disabled by immunisation, I urge you all to research what you are giving to your children before you go to the clinic. I feel many of you are misinformed and don't know what is actually in the vaccines or how they work. The NHS leaflets don't tell you all of the facts and too many people just turn up and have the jabs done without researching them.

For example did you you know that the high pitched cry that the leaflets mention as a side effect is actually caused by the baby's brain swelling?

I was always pro vaccination as I didn't understand how it all worked and just trusted the people I thought knew best until this terrible tragedy. I was told by a GP recently that he hardly studied anything about the immune system whilst he was training.

Please don't be a sheep, research what you are giving to your children. A good place to start is a site called THE VACCINE AWARENESS NETWORK.

According to the British Association for the Advancement of Science, childhood diseases decreased 90% between 1850 and 1940, paralleling improved sanitation and hygienic practices, well before mandatory vaccination programs. Infectious disease deaths in the U.S. and England declined steadily by an average of about 80% during this century (measles mortality declined over 97%) prior to vaccinations.

Why don't you just leave the GP surgery altogether and pray to magical fairies while rubbing grass into the soles of your feet instead if you get ill in the future?

I read on a very pretty website once that it works, plus I know a woman who did it and her son is a pilot now.

(Was that a bit harsh? Erm. Never mind!)