To expect the Doctor to respect my wishes?

[loumum3]

I have not vaccinated my youngest child. I have done this after much research and made an informed decision. The Doctor's surgery has phoned me several times now and written requesting I go in for a discussion about this. I haven't got time for a visit to discuss this, nor do I want to so I said if I had to, I could talk about it on the phone....I have had the Doctor on the phone this afternoon grilling me about my choices, really trying to scare me into having the jabs done and trying to make me feel bad. She cannot see my point of view at all and has been very rude.

Is is really too much to expect a Doctor to respect the decisions I make about my own children ?

Has anyone else experienced this ?

BallonSlayer - I never said that I agreed with her choice. My dc have been vaccinated for all the very good reasons that have been stated. BUT, I think it is wrong to take decision making away from parents. On occasion the state/medical profession have been known to get things wrong.
If the OPs child catches one of these illnesses she will have to live with the knowledge that she could have prevented this. Vaccination is not recommended for all children and the op would feel equally as bad if she chose to vaccinate and something went wrong. Nothing is 100% safe and parents do what they think is best for their child.
When you talk about the state having to take resp if her dc became ill, the state is funded by the people and the people includes the op. Yes pg women and babies are esp vulnerable but the only answer to that is to make vaccination compulsory and I think that is not the right thing to do in a free society. I disagree with the OPs choice but I defend her right to make it .

I am surprised that YOU are surprised that your GP keeps talking to you about this...as other posters have said, it is their duty of care to ensure that parents understand the immunisations on offer, and what the implications of having them - or not - are. The GP is not saying 'come in so I can strap your kids to the chair and inject them against your will' - they want to have a discussion with you. It doesn't matter that you've been through it before; they clearly want you to understand something that, in their opinion, you do not seem to understand to date.

My DS's nursery has issued a notice that 'Measles is back in SW London' - which infuriates me, as it is needless. We are LUCKY to have vaccinations, many parents elsehwere in the world would gladly have them, but we behave as if it's a massive imposition / threat.

I think you need to have a discussion if you seriously expect the GP to accept your decision.

One of the greatest triumphs in medicine in recent times was the eradication of smallpox, which was largely due to vaccination. Vaccination provides herd immunity and a drop in people having their children vaccinated has led to a resurgence in childhood disease. It's the duty of hcp's to ensure people do not miss vaccinating their children without ensuring parents are well informed.

mmm.odd one this. The poster that said the boy was very ill with rubella. As far as I understood it boys CANNOT get rubella - they can only be carriers. And the only reason they are vaccinated either by MMR or by single jabs is not for their benefit but so they don't infect others, particularly pregnant women.

Boys can get rubella it just isn't as dangerous for them I was in contact with a male colleague with it whilst pregnant with eldest, my boss sent me down to find out my resistance to it.

I thought anyone could get rubella but it isn't usually serious except if you are pg, so they vaccinate boys to protect pg women. I'd like to know too now

Boys CAN and do get rubella.

well my clinic said they can be carriers only they can't actually get it ...only passing on what I was told. However even if they do get a mild form (though the child described above is apparently very ill with it) then my point still stands. All the boys get this vaccination for the benefit of others...not them.

GeraldineAubergine
European countries that refused immunization for small pox and polio saw the epidemics end along with those countries that mandated it. (In fact, both small pox and polio immunization campaigns were followed initially by significant disease incidence increases; during smallpox vaccination campaigns, other infectious diseases continued their declines in the absence of vaccines. In England and Wales, smallpox disease and vaccination rates eventually declined simultaneously over a period of several decades.)

It is thus impossible to say whether or not vaccinations contributed to the continuing decline in disease death rates, or if the same forces which brought about the initial declinesimproved sanitation, hygiene, improvements in diet, natural disease cycleswere simply unaffected by the vaccination programs. Underscoring this conclusion was a recent World Health Organization report which found that the disease and mortality rates in third world countries have no direct correlation with immunization procedures or medical treatment, but are closely related to the standard of hygiene and diet.

Sorry loumum3 your thread has deteriorated into a vaccination argument!!

to all those who are so anti-anti-vaccination- are you aware that vaccines contain:

-mercury
-formaldehyde
-aluminium
-aspartame
-chick embryo cells
-dog kidney cells
-cow serum
-latex
-msg
-mouse brain cells

and that their manufacture has involved using aborted human foetuses?

I think what people are objecting to is that it is not just the risk to the OP's child that she will have to live with but the potential risk to other children as well. Every parent who refuses to vaccinate their child is reducing the herd immunity and it is as a consequence of this that outbreaks of measles are on the increase again.

The connections between MMR and autism have been widely discredited now, and I have not heard of any consequence of vaccination which presents the same sort of risk to society as an outbreak of measles can do.

If you are comfortable with your decision to put not only your child but others at risk then that is your business - but I don't think you should expect widespread support for that choice. Your GP is just doing her job.

Stories like this might be why you don't get the support you clearly want for your decision: www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/637218.html?campaign_id=rss_topStories

forever, why would those things change anyone's mind about the medical issue? I'm confused.

foreverastudent - are you aware that the consequences of mumps can be:

Fever
Parotitis.
Meningitis.
Encephalitis.
Deafness.
Orchitis
Pancreatitis.
Myocarditis.

and of measles:

Ear infections, pneumonia, eye infections, fits and encephalitis. Sometimes it can be fatal.

Oh if we're on lists can I add Congenital Rubella Syndrome ?

Oh lordy

Usual childhood vaccines don't contain mercury any more - there's a mercury derivative in flu vaccine. Tiny quantities. We all had far higher exposure to mercury in our vaccines in the 70s and 80s than children do now.

They do contain formaldehyde but then again so do you. And your baby's body makes more formaldehyde in a day than is in any vaccine.

Aluminium - third most common element in the universe. If you don't want your baby to get exposed to aluminium I would stop breastfeeding or any sort of feeding or any sort of anything.

Aspartame? That's a new one on me. Why would a vaccine need an artificial sweetener? Are you thinking of Diet Coke?

Do you get your medical information at Whale.To by any chance?

sleepinglion

ADVERSE REACTIONS of the MMR (from MMR Product Information)

"The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality, within each body system category and have been reported during clinical trials, with use of the marketed vaccine, or with use of monovalent or bivalent vaccine containing measles, mumps, or rubella:

Body as a Whole
Panniculitis; atypical measles; fever; syncope; headache; dizziness; malaise; irritability.
Cardiovascular System
Vasculitis
Digestive System
Pancreatitis; diarrhea; vomiting; parotitis; nausea.
Endocrine System
Diabetes mellitus
Hemic and Lymphatic System
Thrombocytopenia (see WARNINGS, Thrombocytopenia); purpura; regional lymphadenopathy; leukocytosis.
Immune System
Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions have been reported as well as related phenomena such as angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema) and bronchial spasm in individuals with or without an allergic history.
Musculoskeletal System
Arthritis; arthralgia; myalgia.

I had the same treatment from my Health Visitor. I made it clear that I didn't want my DDs vaccinated and that I had never been vaccinated either. She persisted and said that although she understood my reasoning, which is that I prefer my children and I to be unvaccinated individuals in a largely vaccinated society amongst other reasons, she added she considered me selfish. Again she pushed her agenda.

I asked her to leave and that was the last HV appointment I ever accepted. I received several letters informing me of appointments made for vaccinations, all of which I ignored. The surgery finally got the message when I went in one day for an appointment for an unconnected matter and I again got the 'vax speech', this time from the receptionist. I made it very clear, politely but extremely firmly, that the subject was not up for discussion and that I would not be changing my mind.

I found the surgery's approach irritating and insulting. Had I experienced what the OP has I'd still be fuming now, many years on!

MistyB, it may be true that disease levels increased after the introduction of smallpox vaccine but mortality rate dropped. It is also true that the only form of defence against smallpox is vaccination, there is no treatment for it. WHO Studies show that in Europe mortality for people age 10-50 was 49% whilst for those vaccinated it was 1.4%. It was only after WHO introduced the global eradication prgramme the disease was halted.

Vallhala, I think it's up to you what you decide for yourself and children - but how is it not selfish to justify it the way you've just done? Perhaps an acceptable level of selfishness to you, but selfishness none the less, surely?

I can understand not wanting the MMR, but to not get Tetanus? or Polio for that matter?

We still get routine tetanus shots if we end up in A&E.

We routinely chase any parents who decline MMR or Pre School Boosters, but babies with NO imms at all are considered at serious risk by the GPs & HVs in my practice. However, if the parent give a written disclaimer for the records then we accept it.

Let's hope your children never want to travel to a country that requires Imms certificates.

foreverastudent, please correct me if im wrong, but the ingredients in that that arent animal related, are all ingredients that only damage in large amounts, or if the patients individual biology causes them to react badly?

and when you say the manufacture has involved using aborted foetuses, how? to use cells to test that the combination of drugs will not produce a reaction?
genuinely intruiged.

You shouldn't be bullied for making your own parenting decisions, no.

BUT when your parenting decisions could be putting your children, and everyone they come in contact with on a daily basis at risk, I think medical professionals have every right to tell you time after time about the risks of what you are doing. And yes, I know that will offend some people, and to be honest I really don't care - I think it is pure craziness, avoiding having the vaccines. Yes they make the children a bit grotty for a few days, but weighing that up against the prospect of these illnesses, I think I'd rather stock up on Calpol and tea and wait the days out.

As many faults as the NHS has, the fact we have preventatives readily available to stop people from suffering needlessly is a blessing, and we are much luckier here than in many other places. It feels almost like a mockery to those who have suffered if people reject the vaccines and thereby encourage these killer illnesses back into season.

I gave ds singles and had a barrage of ruddy unwanted appointments from the PCT. Nowt to do with my doctor's surgery - the PCT just kept sending me letter after letter after letter each one with a fresh appointment. I cancelled the first three but gave up after that. (The surgery had records of ds's vax from the private clinic.)

My sister delayed my niece's baby jabs and the HV tried to trick her into signing a consent form! Took dn for weighing and HV gave her several different pieces of paper to read/sign - she looked carefully and one of them was consent for DTP. (This was a few years ago when the baby jabs contained mercury - delaying meant dh ended up with the thimerosal free ones.)

Any occupational health people around ? I've always had to produce my vaccine records as part of occ. health screenings prior to job offers (in healthcare) Presumably a non vaxed child/adult wouldn't pass such medicals ? Bit of a bummer if your child wants to be a doctor if that's the case!

LRD, tbh, yes it probably, perhaps doubtless, is a selfish choice. That's my considered, researched decision, made for many reasons, including the one I mentioned. I feel that whilst it's the HV's job to push put the case in favour of vaccination it is not her job to judge me. I had said no and told her why I was doing so. IMO that should have been enough.

Had I met a customer who had refused to have his brakes replaced against my advice when I was a service manager to the motor trade I would have been professional enough to explain my reason for considering it necessary and then left it at that if he/she had declined. I'd have been sacked if I'd called him selfish!