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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Oppositional Defiant Disorder is taking it a step to far?

84 replies

noopska · 19/05/2010 22:44

Stop me if I'm ignorant of past posting or discusions on this.

But I recently read about Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) and it just seems a bit of a joke, most people dont believe it exists (as a real 'term') when I tell them!

So ADHD, Autism yes but ODD?

The symptoms are below:

Frequent and/or extreme temper tantrums
Tendency to be easily annoyed by others
Blatant refusal to comply with household or school rules
Takes argumentative stance with adults
Rude, uncooperative and confrontational attitude
Use of mean-spirited language when upset
Deliberate attempts to upset and annoy others
Frequent bursts of anger or resentful attitude
Tendency to place blame on others
Outward and belligerent defiance
Revengeful attitude

Try many teenagers and toddlers that you might know!

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ABatInBunkFive · 19/05/2010 22:46

YABU For so many many reasons.

ScreaminEagle · 19/05/2010 22:47

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daisy5678 · 19/05/2010 22:48

Maybe try getting a psychology/ psychiatry degree before you dismiss a psychiatric condition.

The point about all of these conditions is that they are pervasive symptoms, displayed to an unusual extent that is interfering with a successful life.

A normal teenager is stroppy. A teenager with ODD will display most of those symptoms above all the time.

People used to say the same about ADHD and high-functioning autism.

It does annoy me because what may be a joke to you is someone's life and someone's child, and a little more research might show you that.

I guess you guessed I think YANBU and that mental health issues are a bit of a personal subject for me. Sorry.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/05/2010 22:50

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noopska · 19/05/2010 22:52

ok sorry guys it

I work with kids btw I do think about this stuff alot

If labels help with getting help and treatment then I suppose they are a good thing

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KristinaM · 19/05/2010 22:53

what stewie said

noopska · 19/05/2010 22:54

Good to get a MN beating on a Thursday night!

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noopska · 19/05/2010 22:55

Part of my job is helping parents through the statementing process so I appreciate the comments MN know so much!

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noopska · 19/05/2010 22:57

I suppose I'm just interested in how a set of behaviours becomes a disorder

as I said the fact that it can help get families support is a good thing

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maryz · 19/05/2010 22:57

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noopska · 19/05/2010 22:59

take back bit of a joke, I meant thats how people I've talked to reacted to the concept

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bigstripeytiger · 19/05/2010 23:00

It doesnt make sense to say that ODD isnt 'real', when you look at the criteria for diagnosis then it is obvious that some children will fall within that description.
The criteria are just descriptive, they make no claim about any particular cause of the ODD.

noopska · 19/05/2010 23:01

the kids that I'm guiding through the statementing process dont seem to fit in any box and I'm trying to work out if that means they wont get the support they need

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Tiredmumno1 · 19/05/2010 23:02

statementing is such a stressful time it took us so long.

i dont think that all people realise how hard it is to raise a child with sn, until you have dealt with it first hand.

i dont see how a stroppy teenager can be used in comparison.

noopska · 19/05/2010 23:03

Ok so its very real for the parents and kids that experience it

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Tiredmumno1 · 19/05/2010 23:04

What do you mean by fit any box? For what?

noopska · 19/05/2010 23:05

appreciate that tiredmummo

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shinypants · 19/05/2010 23:05

Sorry but could I ask how a diagnosis is made i.e. by whom, how long does it take, etc

and at what age do the symptoms/behaviours manifest?

I have DD age 3years, and the above list looks so, so familiar. I appreciate what you said Stewie about it being descriptive and not the actual behaviour.

But I am struggling every hour of everyday with my DD, I had never heard of ODD before.

noopska · 19/05/2010 23:06

i apologise for the way i started the discussion - too influenced by my mother in laws reaction to the concept

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noopska · 19/05/2010 23:07

hijack away shiny... maybe it can do some good

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StewieGriffinsMom · 19/05/2010 23:08

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noopska · 19/05/2010 23:09

oh and its Wednesday night sorry been a hard day (10 hours at work) having to shout at some very lovely but often defiant kids

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Tiredmumno1 · 19/05/2010 23:09

Thats ok noopska. maybe if you had started a thread to ask others for input about the subject, so it makes people aware. that may have been a bit better.

illiterati · 19/05/2010 23:11

ds1's teacher suggested ODD the other day. He's rather the more 'AD' end of ADHD if he's anywhere, with a healthy helping of stubborn to boot. He isn't ODD. He also doesn't 'fit' anywhere - the gp suggested ADHD/ Autism and prescribed ritalin off the cuff, because he said he made the hairs on the back of his neck stand up (don't see that on any dx criteria) We haven't given it to him.

bigstripeytiger · 19/05/2010 23:12

If you look here:

ICD-10

ypu can see the classification system that includes ODD

I have cut and pasted the relevent bit below:

Conduct disorders
Disorders characterized by a repetitive and persistent pattern of dissocial, aggressive, or defiant conduct. Such behaviour should amount to major violations of age-appropriate social expectations; it should therefore be more severe than ordinary childish mischief or adolescent rebelliousness and should imply an enduring pattern of behaviour (six months or longer). Features of conduct disorder can also be symptomatic of other psychiatric conditions, in which case the underlying diagnosis should be preferred.

Examples of the behaviours on which the diagnosis is based include excessive levels of fighting or bullying, cruelty to other people or animals, severe destructiveness to property, fire-setting, stealing, repeated lying, truancy from school and running away from home, unusually frequent and severe temper tantrums, and disobedience. Any one of these behaviours, if marked, is sufficient for the diagnosis, but isolated dissocial acts are not.

Excludes: mood [affective] ( F30-F39 )
pervasive developmental disorders ( F84.- )
schizophrenia ( F20.- )
when associated with:
· emotional disorders ( F92.- )
· hyperkinetic disorders ( F90.1 )

F91.0 Conduct disorder confined to the family context
Conduct disorder involving dissocial or aggressive behaviour (and not merely oppositional, defiant, disruptive behaviour), in which the abnormal behaviour is entirely, or almost entirely, confined to the home and to interactions with members of the nuclear family or immediate household. The disorder requires that the overall criteria for F91.- be met; even severely disturbed parent-child relationships are not of themselves sufficient for diagnosis.
F91.1 Unsocialized conduct disorder
Disorder characterized by the combination of persistent dissocial or aggressive behaviour (meeting the overall criteria for F91.- and not merely comprising oppositional, defiant, disruptive behaviour) with significant pervasive abnormalities in the individual's relationships with other children.
Conduct disorder, solitary aggressive type
Unsocialized aggressive disorder

F91.2 Socialized conduct disorder
Disorder involving persistent dissocial or aggressive behaviour (meeting the overall criteria for F91.- and not merely comprising oppositional, defiant, disruptive behaviour) occurring in individuals who are generally well integrated into their peer group.
Conduct disorder, group type
Group delinquency
Offences in the context of gang membership
Stealing in company with others
Truancy from school

F91.3 Oppositional defiant disorder
Conduct disorder, usually occurring in younger children, primarily characterized by markedly defiant, disobedient, disruptive behaviour that does not include delinquent acts or the more extreme forms of aggressive or dissocial behaviour. The disorder requires that the overall criteria for F91.- be met; even severely mischievous or naughty behaviour is not in itself sufficient for diagnosis. Caution should be employed before using this category, especially with older children, because clinically significant conduct disorder will usually be accompanied by dissocial or aggressive behaviour that goes beyond mere defiance, disobedience, or disruptiveness.
F91.8 Other conduct disorders
F91.9 Conduct disorder, unspecified
Childhood:
· behavioural disorder NOS
· conduct disorder NOS