To think Oppositional Defiant Disorder is taking it a step to far?

[noopska]

Stop me if I'm ignorant of past posting or discusions on this.

But I recently read about Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) and it just seems a bit of a joke, most people dont believe it exists (as a real 'term') when I tell them!

So ADHD, Autism yes but ODD?

The symptoms are below:

Frequent and/or extreme temper tantrums
Tendency to be easily annoyed by others
Blatant refusal to comply with household or school rules
Takes argumentative stance with adults
Rude, uncooperative and confrontational attitude
Use of mean-spirited language when upset
Deliberate attempts to upset and annoy others
Frequent bursts of anger or resentful attitude
Tendency to place blame on others
Outward and belligerent defiance
Revengeful attitude

Try many teenagers and toddlers that you might know!

Terms and labels can be very surprising sometimes.

Pathalogical Defiance Disorder (yes it exists) as a friend with an autisitc daughter knows only too well.

ODD is what another friend's daughter had as a child and she was a nightmare. She was diagnosed with ADHD but actully she had ODD. My son who is ASD and ADHD is nowhere near as challenging as her daughter was.

Shiny hopefully if you do what stewie says and see the hv or gp, to get a referral to a paediatrician it may get the ball rolling, sometimes these things take a bit of time. we also have a behavioural lady at our health clinic and she helps quite alot, ask if you have anything similar in your area.

Its just AIBUs near the top ... people always respond...and I was wanting to know what people thought.

stand soundly but happily whipped by mumsnet (humbly nibbles on a jam tart made by toddlers)

I will do that, thank Stewie, TBH i just thought it was terrible twos or I'm not doing things right and never really contemplated any kind of Disorder, also she is very specific about things being done in a certain way/order and will literally explode if we deviate from this even slightly so i might do some research into this.

Thanks again

YABVU. Unless you've lived with a child with it, you really have no idea how distressing it is, both for the sufferer and those who love them and work with them.

That list sounds like my sister,
shinypants
My ds is also extremely.... Challenging! My ds1 actually frightens me when hes on full tantrum, its as tho he's not "there". Cannot be reasoned with / bribed / consoled / anything.... Just screams no throws anything in reach, back arches, salivates and on really bad days outward breath-hold to the point that I have to resusitate him. A phase or something more worrying. No Idea.

sorry for the extra hijack, but any advice greatly appreciated

First humour on the thread thanks KAQ

I am just interested in the statementing process, how diagnosis works, and how disorders then relate to how much support a child gets.

The kids I work with that are going through the process dont seem to fit into a particular 'disorder'

I dont deny that its a serious issue... just interested in how these 'disorders' come about

no offence meant to anyone IWBFU phrasing it the way I did but still happy to be involved in the discussion

KAQ sounds scary how old is your ds?

KAQ -breath-holding is quite common. I've known a few and there usually a couple in each nursery setting. They usually outgrow it in about 6 months if you ignore (think that's still current advice).

Noopska when my ds was statemented he basically got full hours 121, the reasons were because he was no where near the same level as his peers and because we fought very hard to get them. i would say its mostly to do with how far behind they are though and also depends on what their needs are.

YABU and ignorant.

Yes the symptoms you quote in the OP are true of many toddlers or teenagers but the point is that they are pathological, that they go beyond the norm and impinge on everyday life for the sufferers and their carers.

NT toddlers can usually be distracted or even brought back from the brink of tantrums with careful handling. I'm very patient and calm and have always been very good in that way. Then I had my autistic son and his needs are different entirely.

I am having to learn a whole new approach / skill-set in order to even attempt to see the world through his eyes, with his hyper / hypo-sensitivity to his senses and to his environment. To help him deal with the chaos he has to put up with every single day

"Try many teenagers and toddlers that you might know!"

Sorry?

thanks tm1

I'm wondering its harder for a kid who doesnt easily fall into a category

I'm now tm2

I admit ignorance mi lady ... as it a was totally new concept to me (and my colleages) ...but i know more now!

I am not talking about autism.

It can be alot harder if they dont fall into a category, however i think this is where the help of the doctors should apply, so when it comes to the statementing process the docs could recommend what and how much help is needed, again if people dont have first hand dealings with these situations then how on earth can they decide how long and whether a child has a statement. it really is a horrid process.

Neither am I, I'm talking about children who are not neuro-typical.

ODD is a type of SN and it's not a step "to" far or a step too far.

We all have our crosses to bear and I'm glad we had a chance to exchange views.

Offer children praise and encouragement when they are cooperative.
Parents should refrain from arguing with children and make it clear that they will not be engaged in confrontational displays.
Establish reasonable and age-appropriate behavioural expectations and be consistent in following up with consequences for disobedience.
Parents should learn and utilise stress management techniques.

Can I bring this round (please) by saying that this suggested treatment for ODD can be useful to us all especially mums of teens and toddlers?

noopska - I'm a bit concerned that you are employed to help parents through the statementing process... did I read that bit correctly?

I'm sure you know as part of the statementing process, an assessment takes place which is supposed to detail all the child's needs. The LEA/LA is then supposed to come up with how to meet those needs.

How this works in reality is another issue, but a specific diagnosis should not be relevant.

If you really are supposed to help parents through the process as part of your job, you really need to do a bit of work...

Do you have to help parents apply for DLA too? (That also does not require specific diagnosis...) or are you parent partnership?

Tis No Wonder that parent partnership gets such a bad name. Head over to SN and ask a few questions about how to help parents with statementing. If you are paid to do this, ignorance is really no excuse.

oh shit me grammer!

I apologise for my post title mi lady

(the spelling and the crass phrasing)

I am not employed to do that I have a very varied job part of it is helping parents with any matter relating to school

dont slag me off please I'm learning

it is such a massive field (SN) that I am just getting to grips with it

Just do a bit more research noopska and i am sure you will get there. are there any sn groups near to you, where you can go and meet some parents and children and spend time with them. or in your local school, see if you can watch how they handle any children with sn and what sort of needs they have.

and thanks for info re:specific diagnosis

i work with some kids with SN - to the horror of Territorial I imagine

Please tell me you are NOT a pfsa ... Because the ones I have come across have also been ill educated rescue types who actually know nothing and through their attitude have the potential to cause real harm to children and their families!