To be seriously worried the new govt are looking at cutting child benefit...

[cherrymama]

to 'middle class' families?What does that mean?We both work but have four kids and losing that income will seriously affect us...so please tell me IABU and that it won't happen!

Gordon's overspending

Yeah, righto

Did he do all the spending right across the globe too?? Did he bankrupt Greece, and send Portugal and Spain to the edge??
This Labour bashing is getting rather tedious.

We are NOT in the same state as Greece, that is scaremongering. Our economy is massive compared to the countries that are in serious shite.

The people who are now in power have always led extremely wealthy, cossetted lives. They have no idea what it is like to not be able to afford to feed your children, clothe them, or to worry about providing essentials such as a roof over your head, heat and light. TBH I doubt most of them even know how much a pint of milk costs. The bottom line is that they will cut everything they can, feather the nests of their rich pals, and bugger the rest of us.

It was like this at my uni. The rich kids who'd been to top private schools fiddled the system and got full grants, whilst others who really needed it struggled to stay at uni...

I don't know expat. You don't have to claim child benefit iirc, it just arrives when your baby is born (was a long time ago!). until recently we did need it - very much - so it's a new situation to us. I suspect it would be impossible to get them to stop paying it - probably cause a central computer meltdown

That is true, Mint.

expat you ONLY get childbenefit IF you fill in the forms and claim for it, i left mine a bit late after i had ds4, due to my pnp and a spell in hospital etc, then when i did they wouldnt back date it to his birth. i did send in an accompanying letter explaining why there had been a delay in applying including documentation from a Dr but that didnt make any difference.

its the same with tax credits etc you only get what you apply for.

but 40k isn't much IF your circumstances are that:
youre on maternity leave with no package, ie SMP then zero pay
and
DP has an ex wife and children to support and a mortgage on the wife's house to pay plus maintenance

so an income of 40k is what, 2,300 per month or so after tax

then a mortgage and maintenance for the ex= 1000

and rent in London= 1200 ish

so what, we have 100 to live on per month to pay all food petrol expenses etc. OK I know I'm in the minority but there are other families where one partner pays to support other people, it's modern life, and again even under this government I will be punished for living with DP..?

Thanks, Orm and Mint, for clarifying that.

We had to put in claims for all three of ours, and the eldest was born in 2003.

I distinctly remember that one, because at the time I did not have indefinite leave to remain in the UK, so DH had to claim for DD1 under his own name.

Hmmm maybe we did then..... my youngest was born in 2003 so must have done. 13 yrs of stress and not enough sleep has scuppered my memory

'expat you ONLY get childbenefit IF you fill in the forms and claim for it,'

Yes, yes, that is certainly true now but apparently it wasn't always so as in Orm's case.

We get CTC.

is it really ONLY applying for child benefit that helps secure part of your pension? as i regularly get a form through from the gov pension dep asking if am working etc and there is a box it tick if i am staying at home to look after children etc and there is a scheme whereby you can still pay part of you NI contribution to help with your future pension?

'but there are other families where one partner pays to support other people, it's modern life, and again even under this government I will be punished for living with DP..?'

I don't get how it's punishment. If a person can't afford to have more kids than they can support it doesn't seem like a penalty. Reality, but well, two choices: either make more money to afford more kids or don't have them.

Again, the government can't be expected to legislate around peoples' debts and/or other commitments.

well ds1 is ten and we had to apply for it with him, i remember you got the form in your bounty pack or something?

i also remember my mum filling in a form when i was doing my a levels to say that i was staying in full time education, so that she could continue to claim mine, she gave it to me and i of course frittered it away on clothes, cds etc, that was umm years ago about 17 yrs ago!

Where does this figure of £4 for every £ 3 come from - It was quoted so much in the run up to election - but no source was ever quoted.

We all know about the lack of accuracy in statistics and that one strikes me as one which is pretty much meaningless unless qualified further. Timescales? Who did the research? Using what figures? Anything really.

Progression at the moment would be to get our country out of debt and secure a future for our children. Not to continue to hand out to those who actually don't need it.
I was not talking out our mothers.. I was talking about my situation when ds1 was little.. And those who have older dc's when these things weren't around. What is wrong with expecting people to work / work harder rather than just handing money out?

It seems obvious to cut the hand outs that aren't needed to go a little way to repair the countries finances. Or to make sure those who actually need it get it.

It can be done.. It has been done before and not just by generations past. Progression isn't taking the attitude that the government to provide for our children, if we are more than capable and able to just work harder.

yes i enquired about the voluntary top ups, tho we couldnt afford it at the moment. i knew the cb was a way of it being recognised that you are a sahm, but i thought you could also just inform them without claiming cb? or perhaps that could lead to fraud?

'either make more money to afford more kids or don't have them.

Again, the government can't be expected to legislate around peoples' debts and/or other commitments.'

That's how it is, expat, you're right. I'm always puzzled by people who complain that they can barely afford x or y now and how are they going to be able to afford it when they have 'more kids'?

We knew we could afford two children. So we have two children. Reliable contraception has been available in Britain for decades and decades.
We'll probably lose our child benefit, which will pinch a bit but it's fair enough, really, for those above a certain income.

Why target families with kids? Raise income tax then it will hit everyone proportionaly. But no they are shit scared of doing that. As others have said, they are looking to raise revenue but targeting 'middle income' families. The poor won't have their benefits cut, the rich will hardly notice the difference but people, who generally vote Tory are going to be hit.

£50 000 a year cut off sounds alot but actually when you factor in 2 kids in childcare costing an average of around £1300 per month, plus mortgage, bills etc it really doesn't leave much at all. I guess me and DH bring that in but after all our outgoings I can safely say we are not well off by any stretch and do not have top range cars, designer goods or even bloody holidays very often. CTC and CB have been lifesavers and I'll be bloody sickened if they are taken away - it contributes towards to our childcare costs.

I am between a rock and a hard place too - can't afford not to work but can hardly afford to pay big child care bills!

I have access to academic journals - pass me the reference and I will take a look

tax credits etc were not about when we had ds1, i 'think' we started getting them when ds2 was a toddler? but when we had ds1 we COULD afford to live of just dps wage, rents were lower, i think part of the problem is that despite minimum wage etc the cost of living has gone up and wages have not gone up in line with this?

also the gov wanted to get children out of poverty, therefore the child tax credits were part of this.

there is always an issue with threshholds and maybe they did set the tax credit one too high? we survive on 18,000 a year which is then topped up by ctc, and a tiny amount of wtc. but we REALLY need the ctc and cb etc.

it really isnt possible for me to go out and work because of dp's job and the hours that he does and the on call nature of it.

we did survive without them before, but we would now be in a position where we would lose our house and we couldnt afford to rent as that costs MORE than our mortgage does!

i have no idea where i would place the cut off, but to me the thought of earning even 30k a year would mean we would be MUCH better off and i couldnt see us needing ctc etc, but i guess it varies from family to family, but 50k seems an entirely reasonalbe and infact very generous cut off point to me!

It's much better to raise VAT rather than income tax. Food and children's clothes are exempt from VAT (or zero-rated). So are books.

Raising income tax is a blunt tool: you can't avoid paying it but you can avoid paying VAT by cutting non-essential spending.

'The poor won't have their benefits cut,
'
They're going to be among the first to face cuts.

Next will come the working poor, like us. They'll say, 'Oh, well, we gave you a tax break with the first £10,000 you earn tax-free, so we're cutting working tax credits' (and hiking VAT and NI).

So it's a complete fallacy to think it's only middle earners who will suffer.

Because it'll likely be everyone but high/very high earners.