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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be shocked at this comment?

94 replies

ReallyDismayed · 12/05/2010 22:11

Chatting to a mom in the playground this morning, talking about the weather and how cold it was.

I mentioned that I really didn't like to see winter tights worn with summer uniform as I felt it looked a bit strange.

I then mentioned that obviously some girls didn't have a choice and I understood when it was for "cultural reasons".

She replied "well, the muslim children should be at a muslim school anyway".

(we are at a faith school BTW)

I just looked at her and said that I thought that she was oversimplifying it and quickly looked to see if I could be distracted by one of my DCs.

I am embarassed that I wasn't stronger in my response.

After thinking about it - if she was so willing to express this view, would her DCs be as bigotted?

I'm sure if one of her DCs said something similar at school, there would be very strong sanctions.

OP posts:
moondog · 12/05/2010 22:13

I see.
So you don't agree her opinions and are cross with yourself for not telling her so.

Last time I checked, you could think and say what you liked. Is that not the case anymore?

AnnieLobeseder · 12/05/2010 22:14

Oh dear, good job you didn't see my DD yesterday, cos she dressed herself in winter tights and summer dress!

But that's beside the point. Indeed, a bigoted women. I'd love to offer you some scathing comeback that I would have used, but nothing springs to mind. I like to think that I would have said something, though, to make sure she knew I didn't find her comment acceptable.

AnnieLobeseder · 12/05/2010 22:15

moondog, I think you might find that racism is actually illegal. So no, you can't say what you like. I will concede that you can think what you like though.

Original poster
ReallyDismayed · 12/05/2010 22:17

I think she knew my feelings from my tone and then my instant move away from the subject.

Yes I think I am cross with myself for not being stronger in my disapproval.

OP posts:
Vallhala · 12/05/2010 22:18

And then some buggers will create merry hell because a Muslim school is opened and they consider it discriminatory and elitist. You can't win, can you?

And your respective children attend a faith school (though clearly not a Muslim one!)? So much for 'all God's creatures'!

She is being VU.

On the upside, my step-father's racist views are certainly not held by me or my children, so there's hope for hers yet.

moondog · 12/05/2010 22:18

'racism is actually illegal'

That has got to be one of the most foolish comments I have ever seen written on MN in all my time here.

Dear God.

HerBeatitude · 12/05/2010 22:19

Racism isn't illegal.

AnnieLobeseder · 12/05/2010 22:19

Always lovely to chat with you moondog.

GypsyMoth · 12/05/2010 22:20

how was that 'racism'?

PixieOnaLeaf · 12/05/2010 22:22

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scurryfunge · 12/05/2010 22:23

Not really a racist comment though is it, more anti-religious...

PixieOnaLeaf · 12/05/2010 22:23

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HumphreyCobbler · 12/05/2010 22:24

Well you could have said "No they shouldn't".

Next time do that, and don't worry about her DC. I am sure they are fine.

Racism isn't illegal. Incitement to racial hatred is (I think).

PixieOnaLeaf · 12/05/2010 22:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
ReallyDismayed · 12/05/2010 22:25

I do Pixie - I am trying to bring up fine and fair children.

Upset that there really are people who think like this in my peer group.

OP posts:
HumphreyCobbler · 12/05/2010 22:25

She was against a certain religion.

Muslims come from different races you know.

HerBeatitude · 12/05/2010 22:25

Racism should be illegal?

Should sexism as well?

scurryfunge · 12/05/2010 22:27

She is against muslims then, she is anti the muslim religion.....a religiously aggravated comment, call it what you will

HumphreyCobbler · 12/05/2010 22:27

Next time she says something you disagree with you will be prepared to challenge her about it then.

AnnieLobeseder · 12/05/2010 22:28

From
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/racist_and_religious_crime/

"Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 - Stirring Up Religious Hatred
This Act received Royal Assent on 16 February 2006, and came into force on 1 October 2007. It creates new offences of stirring up religious hatred, which are significantly different from the race hate offences contained within Part III of the Public Order Act 1986 (above).

The offence is committed if a person uses threatening words or behaviour, or displays any written material, which is threatening, if he intends thereby to stir up religious hatred. Threatening is the operative word, not abusive or insulting. Possession, publication or distribution of inflammatory material is also an offence. The offence can be committed in a public or private place, but not within a dwelling, unless the offending words and behaviour were heard outside the dwelling, and were intended to be heard. The defendant must intend to stir up religious hatred; recklessness is not enough.

So using abusive or insulting behaviour intended to stir up religious hatred does not constitute an offence, nor does using threatening words likely to stir up religious hatred.

There is a freedom of expression defence contained in section 29J which confirms that nothing in the Act "...prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism, or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult, or abuse of particular religions, or the beliefs or practices of its adherents."

So it is more difficult to prosecute for inciting religious hatred as opposed to racial hatred (for which the standard is already properly high).

Prosecutions for this offence require the consent of the Attorney General and are dealt with under the same arrangements as offences of inciting racial hatred."

I stand corrected, though it's a fine line.

Thank you for so tactfully and politely pointing my mistake out to me, moondog.

muggglewump · 12/05/2010 22:29

I'm not even getting as far as the Muslim thing before I wonder why the hell you were commenting on children's uniform and it looking strange.
Why is that a big deal, or even commentable on?

I think you are weird, before we even get to her.
I'm glad neither of you have children at my DD's (pita, sometimes wears tights with summer dress, last week bright pink ones ) school.

HerBeatitude · 12/05/2010 22:31

at muggle

Yes I missed that in all the racist shenanigans. It is v. odd to give a shit about uniforms...

PixieOnaLeaf · 12/05/2010 22:32

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Message withdrawn

Original poster
ReallyDismayed · 12/05/2010 22:35

That's not kind muggle -I'm not weird, I'm just not very articulate.

I am actually very uncomfortable with this woman (seems all conversations with her are awkward) but circumstances have thrown us together and I was just trying to find something to say that I thought was pretty innocuous. I was very wrong.

I will try harder with my conversational skills.

OP posts:
muggglewump · 12/05/2010 22:41

I don't think I was being unkind actually, I think you were, before we get to the other woman.

I don't think commenting on kids wearing tights with a summer dress is a nice thing to do. You buy the summer dress, you bin, or pass on the winter uniform, depending on the ate of it, it gets chilly, you put tights on them so they have warm legs.
Not exactly rocket science.

I just can't get all het up about racism when you are so flipping odd yourself, and yes, that is weird, but there you go.