to be shocked about the amount of suppo rt a teacher gets when they nearly kill a pupil

[2shoes]

now I know it sounds like the boy was not a good kid, but he was 14, the teacher nearly killed him, yet on here and in the media the teacher has been getting so much support.
yet a boy was nearly killed...........
(prepares to be flamed)

teacher was psychotic.the balance of his mind was disturbed.complete disconnection from reality and inability to grasp actions and consequences.psychosis globally affects mood,behaviour,responses to others,decreasing empathy

the teacher would have undergone rigorous psych assessment and social reports pre-trial.all submitted to corroborate the mental state at time of the offence

however the pupil has really suffered too.regardless of how allegedly cheeky he was he was it was a disproportionate and violent response by a disturbed man.the pupil and his family must have been through hell.seeing your young son strapped to machines,with very serious HI.i do hope the pupil and family receive counselling and debrief

I am sorry the child was so badly injured, but I also feel sorry for the teacher.

However, I do feel that all of you who are saying he should have been convicted of attempted murder should stop trying to second guess the jury.

YOU have not sat through ALL the evidence. YOU are forming your opinions on the various media reports. Media reports which are necessarily abbreviated to fit the space available, and also edited to present the angle the paper wishes to focus on.

The teacher was convicted of GBH, and acquitted of attempted murder and GBH with intent. And as well as the evidence, the jury would have received expert direction from the judge to help them understand the criteria on which to convict or not.

2 main victims the teacher and the pupil.both have suffered in different ways.the pupils family must have really suffered too.son sustained life threatening injuries

and i hope both can find some closure,and start making moves toward re-establishing life after trauma

hope both get counselling ,support and adequate time/space to talk this through

big question is was a proper return to work ax undertaken, was teacher properly supported.

He pleaded guilty to GBH - which he clearly committed.
He was only acquitted of GBH with intent and attempted murder, both of which require premeditated intent. No intent = no conviction for those. Funny how lots of the reporting hasn't mentioned the 'admitted guilty to GBH' bit!

Friend of mine got stabbed by one of her pupils. Once out of hospital she agreed to return to the class as long as she didn't have to teach that kid. School refuses that. Kid hits her over the head with a chair, back in hospital, she hasn't taught since except for a bit of supply.

Loads of teenagers are nasty to teachers - my school was as privileged as it gets but still certain teachers got treated amazingly cruelly and a couple did have breakdowns. Mostly, luckily, they had some support and we got bollocked and the teachers got better at dealing with us, and we grew up. But where you have larger classes, kids who are too messed-up to think about learning, and little backup or sanctions, something needs to change.

MrsBean makes some good points.

Sadly there are a few teachers out there that can't handle their jobs (sad for the teacher and the pupils - it's not good for either).

If they won't hand their notice in, it's very difficult for the managers to do much.

I agree with the point about 'inclusion', but not with reference to 'inclusion' as it is understood with reference to SEN. Two generationa ago, 14 year old who were not interested in education - regardless of the social, cultural or academic reasons underpinning that disinterest - were not in school. Some were apprenticed, some were working, some were in borstals etc, etc.

The availability of education to all is a great and good ideal, but the language and behavioural expectations encountered at school can be socially and culturally alienating to some students. I'm a Speech and Language therapist who provides weekly in-class support to secondary students in a mainstream inner-city. multicultural setting. I am there to provide support to a small number of students with serious language disorder, yet in the lower sets, 'mainstream' students flock to my table with visual supports/simple explanations because the concepts and vocabulary of the classroom are so new to them and difficul for them to absorb at the rate the curriculum expects them to. It's arguable that children from middle class environments who've been exposed to this type of language/thinking are always one step ahead - and that's before you throw social/cultural confusion into the mix.

Some of these kids get worn down. I was in a class a few months ago and a lovely girl of about 15 asked for my help because she couldn't understand the task the teacher had set. It's my job to give this, so I spent some time explaining what the teacher had asked them to do in 'plain English' and she duly undertook the activity. When the teacher came to the table, she gave her a roasting for being 'so slow' with her work and when the girl tried to explain she shouted her down for being cheeky and gave her a detention! I see it happen: rambling teachers who shout at and belittle kids for not understanding their rambling instructions. The teachers with authority are plain speaking and take care to explain what they are speaking about and are generally much better at maintaining behavioural control.

Some of these kids have no idea what's going on in the classroom, even though they do not have special needs. They disengage and act out. Throw in a history of violence/abuse/neglect and you have a powerful cocktail that can lead to tragedies like this occurring.

I feel there are no happy endings for anybody involved in this case.

If this "victim" had been a proper student without being disruptive and saying "F**k off" to his teachers - and got proper guidance from his parents, this would never have happened to him! I am amazed and shocked he was allowed to attend the school with behaviour like that.
I guess he'll never do it again!

That's a great point you make mrsbean. However it has also been reported that the man involved had been a well liked and respected teacher prior to his breakdown.

Reading my posts back, I have come across as against inclusion- I'm not. Challenging the policy that saw generations of children with SEN written off is undoubtedly a good thing. I don't agree with it as a blanket policy however; I believe it is often used as a cost reducing exercise by governments/LEAs who are unwilling or unable to fund specialist provision.

I teach teenagers with Emotional, Social and Behavioural Difficulties. This is a Special Education Need.

I would just be wary of thinking of 'SEN' as referring only to children with a specific learning or communication difficulty- it isn't. SEN is an incredibly broad term.

BTW, I agree that there are no happy endings, but not sure what you mean by a 'proper' student, qwert- most of the kids in my school have told the staff to fuck off at least once (daily in some cases ), yet they remain students...

I was a student in the 80s, and I NEVER ONCE heard a student say "F-off" to a teacher! The children in my school got a belt off a ruler if they did much less than that!

If I knew my children ever said that to a teacher they would be grounded for a week!

The parents have a lot to answer for.

of course the pupil is also victim.he got his head stoved in,suffered life threatening injuries.yes shouldn't have sworn or been disruptive and provocative.but that in no way excuses what has happened to him

teacher and pupil are victims

He was mentally ill.

He is not recieving support as such on MN, just people commenting that he was mental ill and should never had been in the situation in the first place. Prison would not have been appopriate IMO. he needs medical help, not imprisonment.

Yes, the boy was 14y. But at 14y he knew what he was doing and he is old enough to know what he was doing was wrong, very wrong. This was not just some cheeky chappy little boy teasing a teacher. This was ongoing, had gone on for months. the boy had been in trouble many times. This boy knew his rights and what he was allowed to do and get away with, wonder if he knew half as much about his responsibilities? i doubt it.

It is a very very sad situation for all invovled.

i just hope the school and the pupils involved have learnt from this awful situation, and that the school are putting things in placeto prevent anything like this happening again.

The teacher did wrong, very wrong. But he did not act sanely, as he was clearly not well. Imprisonment would not have been right IMO.

Right then, qwert, so I must be mistaken, and nobody under the age of 16 ever told their teacher to fuck off until what... 1990?

As for those that think that the child would not have recieved such a lenient sentence in the opposite situation...

many many teachers are physically and verbally assualted daily by their pupils. Most of these go unreported when school management persuade staff to "keep it in housee.". Pupil assaults in teachers is by far way more common and unreported (therefore, kids let off) than the other way round.

Had the situation been reversed and the by had been seriously mentally ill in recent times ad had reacted i similar way, and had been at the end of goading and bullying persitently for days and days (and longer) beforehand - then yes, i supect the same sentence would occur.

plenty profanities and smoking at my school.pupils and teachers

"Sadly there are a few teachers out there that can't handle their jobs "

This kid of attitude really makes me cross. NO ONE, regardless of their job, should have to deal with this level of poor behaviour on a daily basis.

This is not a case of not handlingtheir jobs. This is a case of management not sorting teir schools out.

Pupils should not behave in this manner. It is not acceptable. We can never accept it as being ok. teachers are not their to maintain control permanently, they are their to teach and educate.

I was physcially assaulted by a 13y pupil when 7 months pregnant. he slammed a chair in my pregnant stomach and smashed two windows. He got two days out of school. No parents in. no apology. Nothing. e wa sin my very next lesson. i had not goaded in. I had not shouted. I had asked him to work. For me it was the beginning fo the end. I will never work as a seondary school teacher again. poor pupil behaviour ruined it for me, and poor senior management not doing anything to prevent it, had be so down I got out.

i am not an easy target. I was not incapable of my job. I was a bloody good teacher. I mamaged to work in a prison with lifers, murderers, rapists, etc. for 3 years after that. he prison environment was a more pleasant one to work in. There was an element of control at least.

zazizoma - he was found not gui;ty as intent was not proven. he was clearly incapable of makng a sane judgement at that time. he did not, in the eys of that court, intend on murder.

Tethersend, I'm saying it never happened in my school - nothing else, stop jumping to conclusions!

It never happened in my school during the 5 years I attended...

YABU. The teacher will most definitely be found guilty of GBH. He'll still have to pay for his crime.
There are no winners in this case: the boy will probably suffer ill heath for the rest of his life (maybe epilepsy), the teacher will also have to deal with what he's done. I don't think anyone condones his actions, just understands the dynamic of them.

I have taught in a secondary school were extreme swearing at staff was not dealt with properly by senior management, where pupil after pupil was excluded then put back into the school by the appeals panel, to mock the staff further. female staff were subjected to sexual threats, male staff were accused of hitting kids ("yeah we'll say we saw you" chorus the lads yobish mates.

I have taught in primaries where kids of 7 were threatening to knife their peers and the parents doing nothing about it, where other parents have laughed at little boys of 6 holding their fathers hand on the way to school.

our society is in a dreadful state and I hate to say it but a lot of it comes down to poverty and poor parenting. kids are full of their rights but want none of their responsibilities

recently round here a young would be burglar was caught snooping in someones garage and locked in while the police were called - youd think it were cut and dried, caught red handed, but no - guess which one got a night in the cells!!