to be shocked about the amount of suppo rt a teacher gets when they nearly kill a pupil

[2shoes]

now I know it sounds like the boy was not a good kid, but he was 14, the teacher nearly killed him, yet on here and in the media the teacher has been getting so much support.
yet a boy was nearly killed...........
(prepares to be flamed)

ah but some people have no shame at all gay40. None.

I agree the teacher should not have been at work; the senior management team must accept responsibility for that, given that the man had pleaded with the ed psych that he was ill and in his own word 'could harm children'.

It appears therefore that he was mentally unstable and cannot be held accountable for his actions.

I do have some sympathy for the boy he attacked and I feel the level of the tacher's 'retaliation' was disproportionate. However maybe if that kid thinks about the consequences of his behaviour he will have actually learned something useful. When you treat people like shit and abuse them relentlessly you must expect some kind of comeback. Which indeed he got.

And to the bear baiters who filmed the event and encouraged the whole thing; I hope they have learned something too. At the very least I hope that by having their disgusting behaviour exposed in a court of law and played out in the national media has forced them to look into themselves- and I hope their parents have duly taken note.

And lastly - this will happen again, in some school, somewhere - except this time the kid will be killed. It's only a matter of time.

The teacher confessed to GBH without intent, 'without intent' because of his mental breakdown, to which the court agreed.

I don't think the man was right for one moment that goes without saying, I have spent much of my career in very tough schools so I can have some sympathy. As a new naive teacher I have been sexually assaulted ( hushed up by the school and I had to teach him when he returned), at my second school I was threatened home and threatenede with anal rape ( the school attempted to hush that one up but I called the police and was labelled difficult) I then lost a baby after being attacked by a pupil. This drove me to a breakdown and when I eventually fell pregnant again I felt I had no choice to walk away from teaching as I felt my school was an unsafe place for a pregnant woman to be . I therefore lost untold earnings, pension payments and maternity pay . I have to admit that as a young teacher I did not know what I was getting into. I had trained mainly in schools without behaviour issues. When you go for an interview schools often hide their behaviour problems and as a result end up with innapropriate staff.

I returned to teach in a tough school many years later but they were honest with me at interview about the nature of the students I was dealing with . I was therefore prepared as were most of the staff. Every year we would lose staff though who would have mental breakdowns due to the relentless abuse. I saw a few teachers lose it and many of us would be reduced to tears at one point.

I used to feel for older teachers who were in many ways trapped. They became teachers when tough schools kept control using corporal punishment. When that stopped (rightly in my view) these teachers just could not cope. One of my colleagues committed suicide after a pupil raped her grandaughter because she had been instrumental in his exclusion after he hit her in class. In such a situation you could see a vulnerable teacher lashing out at a boy who as vert close to manhood. It does not make it right but you can see how it happens.

Many of us who have taught in such schools with innefective leadership must think there for the grace of God.

IMO the LEA and management need to be held accountable .

Sorry am on my phone it should read followed home and threatened with anal rape.

Okay, I've gone away and thought some more about this. I certainly concede the point that it is difficult to criticise the jury's decision when I'm not privy to the evidence presented them. I'm also on board with this not being premeditated, in that he most likely did not get up that morning intending to batter the child.

But killing someone in a fit of rage is still murder, no? And attempting to kill someone in a fit of rage is still attempted murder, is it not? I've heard that while in the fit of rage the teacher was yelling 'die.' It's hard to see how there wasn't intent to kill.

We, as civilised people, MUST be responsible for our actions, rage or no. Otherwise society will break down completely. Why did he continue to put himself in the situation if he was worried about his potential actions? Children have an entirely different relationship to responsibility than an adult. And the child was in the care of this adult.

My concern is that the jury was more sympathetic to the teacher than to the boy. I'm concerned that somehow the boy was considered to have deserved what he got. This is akin saying a woman is asking to be raped by wearing tart clothes, an attitude which assigns the responsibility for crime to the victim and absolves the perpetrator. Some of the attitudes demonstrated on this post suggest that this suspicion is not far fetched.

What you've been through sounds appalling I agreewith Nick. Do you think perhaps the current system just cannot cope with these kind of children? Do you think there is an alternative?

zazizoma I think you hit the nail on the head

Nick, if the solution is not going back to corporal punishment, what about exclusion/expulsion? Not to another school for them to cause the same disruption. But what ...?

Good grief, IagreewithNick - that just shows how shocking some schools have become!

I could recount dozens more stories I di think there are some children who just should not be in mainstream education for everyone's sake.

I think the link to domestic abuse is interesting. If a woman was goaded and abused by her husband for years, then snapped and clobbered him around the head with a dumbell I think the verdict and the public reaction would be the same. Which seems fair to me.

It isn't a question of him choosing to be there and he souldn't have been if he couldn't do the job...the system doesn't work that way. By the sounds of things (and interpreting through my knowledge of the system) he was signed off for however long. Occupational health get involved after a certain period, and depending on the school and how long the person has been off for a phased return is arranged. If the teacher doesn't agree to this, they can be effectivel sacked. From what we know, he told them that he thought he might hurt someone if sent back in.

As much as I hate to say it as a teacher, there geniunely are some kids who are pretty much uncontrollable. In my first year at my current school I have had the following happen:
Told to fuck off (multiple on a daily basis)

• Called a c*1t
• Pushed
• Fronted up to
• Pinned against a wall
• Chairs thrown at me
• Physically threatened
• Disgusting sexual references made to me
• Told I am bang up for it and that if we weren't in the classroom I wouldn't have a choice in the matter.
• Tried to explain to an 11 yr old why kicking in the door of the local 'paki' shop at 1130pm on a school night whilst shouting abuse will get you arrested, justifiably... to no avail.

And many more. I am a calm person and don't really get wound up by much. But even I have felt the red mist and had to walk away...imagine having a 6 foot odd teenager getting so close to your face you can feel his breath telling you to fuck off while smirking and all his mates laughing...on a regular basis. And knowing, as he does that there is diddly you can do about it. You can make permanent notes on his record, call 'behaviour mentors' (basically bouncers with VHFs) to remove him, send him the The Unit for a week, perhaps call his parents (who will either not be there or not care) and hope that they will let you have him for an after school detention. Chances are they won't, and in fact they'll swear at you too. Or you try going to the senior leadership team, who tell you that perhaps you need to work on your 'behaviour management' and that it is your job to deal with it. He'll still be in your class, and will carry on as normal, doing whatever he wants.

I'm not saying I think violence is ever the solution, but I do have sympathy for him absolutely. And I think until any of us have been in that postion and seen what some of these children can be like (and trust me, I am as bleeding heart as they get pretty much and try to see the best in/have sympathy for most of the children I come across regardless of their behaviour as there are reasons) we can't just say that he deserved to be locked up and shouldn't have been doing the job if he couldn't handle it. With all due respect, until you have tried it you really can't judge.

i agre with it seeming like a really bad attack and shouting for the boy to die wellthat seems awful should the teachers have backup available .The first school my daughter went to was in a disadvantaged area and unfortunately closed down she was very happy there.They seemed from what she told me to have some way of calling in extra help when needed two or more generally tall i think other teachers would suddenly walkin and take the out of contrl teenager out to another room .She always felt safe there .It would work for overstressed teachers as well.What is wrong with people having appropriate support hopefully schools like that will be seen for what they really are by the new goverment good supportive schools

Amen, MrsC2010.

After reading some opf these posts I am disgusted that adolescents are allowed to behave in this way.
Quite frankly, if my child was in a classroom with such out of control kids I would be relieved to hear that a teacher had dealt with-in what ever way-that child. Yes I would prefer that child to be hit/reprimanded/whatever rather than have my child sit day in day out having to see this disgusting and quite frankly unacceptable behaviour.
When I was a school (in a very deprived area)kids just did not EVER swear in class, let alone threaten to hit them. The reason? no inclusion-"naughty" kids went to "naughty" schools and kids who wanted to learn were spared the trauma of having to sit in fear every day of these ferel types. Also corpral punishment was used at the first sign of anyone stepping out of line. None of my classmates were ever hit and I had a very good time at school free to learn and enjoy the experience.
Teachers had control, parents respected this.

I am not a teacher, but know how it feels to be pushed to the limit every day. My son has SN and is aggressive and physically and verbally abusive every day. Sometimes, it is hard to remember there is a reason for his behaviour and I have to walk away he makes me soooo angry. At the moment, I am stressed and probably depressed, and know this makes it harder to stay calm and rise above the behaviour.
I feel sympathy for the teacher and do think he had a moment of insanity. I dont think cos he shouted,"die, die", that meant he wanted to kill. In a moment of madness, who knows what we would shout?
But, I do think the onus was on this teacher regarding his health. He recognised he was very stressed and how close to the edge he was. He should not have been teaching feeling like that, and if Occup. Health wanted him at work, he should have asked his GP to intervene or asked to be referred to adult Mental Health.
No, I dont think he should have gone to prison-to have some therapy would have been far more beneficial.
I cant help thinking though, that if this pupil had attacked the teacher, there would be little sympathy for him, and probably he would have gone to a Youth Detention Facility.
This is a sad case all round. I agree with others, that the teachers Management should have supported him when he said he could not cope. Hopefully they will look at their procedures.
Yes, this boy was probably nasty and unlikeable and pushed every button going. But, he did not deserve to receive severe head injury-the punishment does not fit the crime. And if he is a "little shit" as others have referred to him, then his parents/carers have played their part in that. He is a boy-14- and did not become a "shit" overnight-he did not start out in life like this.

Yup, getting more disturbed all the time here, perhaps I should hide the thread.

Since when has one human being ever been able to beat another into submission? If we beat these kids are they suddenly going to WANT their GCSEs? And don't we suspect that the beatings they have already received at home are part of the problem? Are you guys suggesting that you'd be okay with someone else beating your child if they deemed it appropriate?

The UK's whole perspective on education is wrong-footed, compounded by Labour's fantasy that all kids could fit into a single main stream. What I hear suggested here is that hey, if they don't fit, just beat them until they do.

What these kids are raging against is the sense of futility and lack of purpose and meaning in their lives. The current education system embodies all this for them, and the teachers are their points on contact with the system. What they need, the boys in particular, is to be whisked off by big, strong caring men with military demeanours to build houses in Haiti.

I pray that the next government will drop the insanity of the single education paradigm and support other professionals to create these programmes that will actually address the needs of these kids.

And finally, the 'system' is only the collective actions and decisions by consenting people, nothing more.

I agree with you zazizoma.

I think you're being a little simplistic. No-one (correct me if I'm wrong) has said that they think he did the right thing or are advocating a return to corporal punishment. The 'sympathetic' posters (me being one of them) are actually just defending the teacher against those with no experience of such situtations making broad sweep statements along the lines of 'it he couldn't hack it he shouldn't be there' etc etc.

It is very rare that I meet a child I can't find a redeeming feature in, and trust me, I have met some horrors. I would be horrified if any of my colleagues decided to whack one of said little monsters around the head with a weight. However I wouldn't be completely devoid of sympathy to what got the colleague there in the first place.

No-one is saying what he did was right. This has been said a few times but obviously hasn't been picked up. The system is flawed, those who work within it know that better than most. But for now, we just have to keep working within it and doing the best we can.

MrsC, I too was puzzled who on earth was advocating corporal punishment as a way to manage disruptive behaviour in class.

I think you're being a little simplistic MrsC. Many people who have called the child a little shit who deserved all he got. Those against that idea have mostly said the system is flawed and the teacher should not have been there not because he couldn't hack it but because he had suffered a nervous break down - rather different. And that is obviously the LEA and the head's fault.

Even the most badly behaved child [often with the most deprived home life] deserves a chance in life, and that takes more money and time and bloody hard work than LEAs and the govt are willing to give.

You don't have to scroll back very far to get to muminthemiddle's post, and that's only on this page.

ah, zazi, you read muminthemiddle as saying 'hit the child' as the solution (fair enough, but you must read what she says in context).

Her solution was actually 'naughty' schools. I am in favour of exclusion and 'naughty' schools for such children.

Ah but Blueshoes whenever anyone suggests that inclusion is not working, they are immediately slated.
Why should well behaved children who actually want to learn, have to tolerate those who do not?