to be shocked about the amount of suppo rt a teacher gets when they nearly kill a pupil

[2shoes]

now I know it sounds like the boy was not a good kid, but he was 14, the teacher nearly killed him, yet on here and in the media the teacher has been getting so much support.
yet a boy was nearly killed...........
(prepares to be flamed)

It's awful that the teacher attacked the pupil, truly awful. But kids wouldn't goad a stranger in the street or any other adult acquaintance in the same way they would torment a teacher, because they know a teacher can't be allowed to fight back and wallop them one. They know they have the upper hand. They know they're safe, they know they can do whatever they want, and that the moment the teacher puts a foot out of line he'll lose his job and the children are entitled to damages. It's a sport.

Of course, whacking a 14-year-old round the head with a dumbbell and yelling "die" until he broke his skull is absolutely unjustifiable, but I do have sympathy for the teacher (and indeed all secondary teachers).

He isn't 'lucky' not to be convicted of attempted murder.

The jury took less than two hours to reach the decision of not guilty - based on the evidence. No luck involved.

Not all children in a classroom will respond to a teacher this way (although many will respond to peer pressure). There are other factors. Bad parenting at home for instance.

I think we should all be allowed to go round basdhing someone half to death if they cause us stress.

That boy was one of many he wasn't the only one. I'm not condoning what he did but he didn't deserve that! And if the teacher is as ill as all thet he'd not have been put up for trial.

I teach at a secondary school in the same town as All Saints, and I know the teacher, professionally. I was shocked as it seemed very out of character for him, but if those students are anything like the students at the school where I teach (extremely disadvantaged, low-aspirational area) then I can understand how someone fragile could be pushed to the absolute limit. Teenagers in these sorts of schools are not like the teenagers I went to school with 20 years ago - some of them are truly awful, and many of my colleagues have been pushed to tears after a lesson. Peter Harvey was convicted of GBH, wasn't he? Just not attempted murder. I think that the school senior leadership team should really have picked up on the fact that he was not in a good enough condition to care for and teach those classes, and done something about it. There is no excuse for this level of violence - particularly against a child, but there may be reasons, and I think it's just shocking and sad all round!

daftpunk have reported you, you really are a troll

QUOTE (pofacedagain)"What makes the children act like this in the classroom? You think they are 'just like that' ? They have been massively let down."

Massively let down by parents who obviously haven't properly instilled in their offspring the concept of RIGHT and WRONG.

It starts at HOME, and it makes my jaw DROP when people imply that bad behaviour at school has little to do with parenting.

Reported me for what 2shoes..?

tell me..

I am so, but I'm on the teacher's side.

Yes, he's a "child" (he was 14 at the time of the incident), but children are not angels - they can be capable of some rather hideous things, why, you can never know. For example - look at the Jamie Bulger killers, those two boys who attacked the other two recently.

My DM is a teacher and a lot of friends are. It can be hideous - you can have children who will bully teachers day in, day out. My mother had a 7 year old calling her a fucking whore (she responded with "I may have to sue you for defamation, as you're implying that I cheat on my husband and sell my body for a living". Kid didn't know what to do with themself), hit her, beat her - this is a woman in her sixties. Others have been mercilessly teased, physically assaulted - and there is nothing you can do. The procedure for suspending a child is long winded, and ultimately pointless. Threats of sending them to the heads office are useless. Having no power like that, no control, is very hard to deal with

I'm sorry, but I can totally see why he was driven to this point, as horrific as it is. Maybe this will be a wake up call to some of these little shits, or even the authorities.

Pofaced
The child(ren) may well have terrible home lives, I was not trying to defend the teacher's actions or say that they were in any way acceptable.

But if he was the only wage earner in the family, then it would be more difficult for him to make the decision to stay off school.

There is a huge pressure on the one person responsible for the whole family, which may have led him to try to struggle on and cope with the situation, even though it would be better for everyone if he stayed at home.

thanks folks.
At least this thread imo gives both sides.
and isn't totally on one side iynwim, that is more like what I expected when I first heard about this.

It sounds as if the teacher should not have been teaching that class alone, and the behaviour of the kids was disgusting. I am not without sympathy for the boy injured, he will carry the scars forever.

I think as a society we are nasty and mean. You can see it here on Mumsnet, some posters love to put others down, be cliquey, etc.

In this country we have weird attitudes - childhood obesity, for one. "They'll get bullied!" people say, which isn't inevitable, if everyone bothered to teach their kids not to be nasty to one another it would be purely a health issue! The bullying associated with red hair is another example, it just should be UNACCEPTABLE.

With the election campaign at the moment you can see it, nobody wants to do anything to help anyone else. Nobody is willing to pay a bit more tax. Nobody wants anybody to have anything unless they have more.

When I was in the third year at high school we had an art teacher who was driven to a breakdown. It was awful, I found it painful to watch. I knew the ringleader very well, went all through school with him, lived on the same estate and our mothers were friendly. He tried the same sort of trick on many teachers. His mother NEVER believed that he was capable of such behaviour, but he was probably the nastiest bully I have ever encountered. And he may have been only 14 but he knew what he was doing, and he didn't care.

It is not new though, is it?

We had a teacher who was locked out of class, mocked and driven to a breakdown.

Is it more prevalent in UK schools now, more so than when we were at school?

Swisscheese, that conversation isn't all that bad is it? Mum telling kids not to racially abuse shopkeeper... I've heard a lot worse! OK she shouldn't use terms like that but she's tackling their behaviour at least, not condoning it.

I have a friend who teaches in a very posh private school and he says one of the biggest problems there is bad behaviour from some kids whose parents are 100% convinced their little darlings can do NO wrong. Any behaviour issue must be the teacher's fault and the parents come in backing up their DC, whatever they've done, and abusing the staff.

Yes parents are to blame. But school should be there to help damaged children. Not brutalize them further. The current system is Victorian.

Read Hard Times. Things have changed superficially but not that much in terms of attitudes towards children. We have very damaged perceptions of children in this country. Always have.

I had a Spanish friend who told me he'd never been scared of children until he moved to the UK.

How very sad.

I've just read that back and it makes no sense I suppose I'm trying to say that I think the behaviour of the children in that school is part of a wider malaise.

Why can't people just try and be nice to each other? sigh.

YANBU, I've been shocked by it as well. So this man, supposedly caring for these children hit him repeatedly whilst shouting, "Die, die, die" and it wasn't attempted murder?? I'll remember that if anyone winds me up

I agree with poface too, noone gives a thought about why the child may be doing it, it's all about the "poor" teacher. If he was too stressed and ill to be working then he should have been signed off by his gp. There is NO EXCUSE for what that man did.

Yes behaviour at home can be a problem but schooling and the whole system is antiquated and needs a massive overhaul. It's madness to blame the children for the teacher's behaviour (so we're saying the teacher is affected by external stimulus) but the children don't get awarded the same benefit. Just blame the parents instead. What about the school and what they are surrounded by there. If we accept that can make the teacher hit someone over the head until they are nearly dead then why can't the children be afforded the same understanding?

Less palatable I guess. Easier to blame the "youth" and the "bad parenting" rather than looking deeper into it and making real changes in the whole school system.

QUOTE (pofacedagain) "school should be there to help damaged children. Not brutalize them further. The current system is Victorian."

I would have to disagree with you there. I've taught in several schools and within each and every one, the emphasis was always on 'what's best for the child'. In a couple of schools, the Guidance department was the largest in the school. I think that's fairly typical in British schools.

daftpunk, unlike people who ramble on about the glory of the bnp, i'm sure 2shoes was only joking about the hitmen, so don't worry......

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1203184/Exclusions-school-assaults-teachers-students-83-000. html

wow, over 83,000 exclusions in one year for pupilsphysically attacking staff and fellow pupils.

(Primary and secondary schools in England also excluded pupils for a fixed period 94,740 times for verbally abusing or threatening teachers and other children.)

It doesnt condone this teachers actions, but gives some idea of the scale of the problem, especially as exclusopns are so difficult to impose in schools now.

MmeLindt you asked "Is it more prevalent in UK schools now, more so than when we were at school?"
In my personal experience it is. I left school in 1990, and don't remember extreme and continual examples of terrible behaviour and violence towards staff. Some of my classmates would goad teachers, and some of it must have been very irritating, looking back, but nothing like the stuff I've experienced since becoming a teacher.
I've had bags thrown at me, my desk turned upside-down, students telling me,and each other, to "fuck off and die", just before I left on adoption leave (3 months ago) I had a particularly nasty year 9 student hit another student over the head with a glass bottle, and then threaten to "cut me up", if I gave them any homework, and a colleague has been hit repeatedly over the head with a phone!!!!
Just another day in a North Nottingham town, I'm afraid. And many of these problems are definitely manifesting from the student's home life, and it doesn't help when you try and contact a parent/carer and you get verbal abuse and threats of violence from them too!

SwissCheeseIsHolyCheesus thank you < I was, I couldn't afford one anyway