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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think it's not helpful when people are overly negative about FF?

309 replies

lunartictoc · 26/04/2010 17:25

Hi
Have been reading boards for a while under a different name, but wanted to post slightly contentious issue under new name.
AIBU to think that when discussing the merits of BF V FF, it is really unhelpful when some BF advocates try to strengthen their case with really negative comments/facts/ideas about FF? ie discussing how F-fed children are more prone to illness (including serious, like cancer) that it can lead to health problems for mothers, that it can cause obesity etc? I absolutely catergorically cannot BF my DS as much as I would have loved to - it is medically impossible. So I did a bit of research on FF, and many search engine results point here to MN. It scared me half to death reading what some posters have said about FF - I have no option, and without FF my son would have no milk at all! Some statistics (and indeed vitriol from the more judgemental posters) have just made me feel so upset and that I am being a bad mother, and damaging my DS in some way. I understand that pro-BF parents are keen to educate, and I understand that many F-feeders do so due to lack of support/education etc, but I think that there are many better ways to get across this message. Perhaps I am being over-sensitive, but some comments have really upset me! AIBU?

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 27/04/2010 21:28

i dont retain who said what.i dont actually care. i switch off and switch off.its only words on a screen after all

however i have acquired a disparate gaggle who variously claim
i stalk them
i follow them on mn.
i am mean/pull their hair.
take contrary view to them
have the temerity to post on same posts as them
i name change to get em

total mince of course. i like the riposte with everyone

AitchTwoZone · 27/04/2010 21:29

lol. name names.

scottishmummy · 27/04/2010 21:31

cant recall but they pop up.J'accuse and het up

CarmenSanDiego · 27/04/2010 21:31

This notion of BF extremists is just silly.

What are they doing? Lobbing breast pumps through windows? Shouting in the faces of bottlefeeding mums? Demanding prison sentences for mixed feeders?

No.. they're simply on an internet forum stating their opinion that they support recommended evidence-based guidance from leading health organisations. And as far as I can see, they've all been polite, even when a few loons from the FF side of the debate have TYPED LIKE THIS!!!! and made nasty and sweary personal comments.

And I haven't seen one supposed 'extremist' say that everyone can and must breastfeed.

Stop making these silly accusations about bullying and extremism when it's just two sides disagreeing in a debate.

Buzzybb · 27/04/2010 21:33

Yeah apparently got crappy info for stats and no real info very frustrating and loads of crappy info about the quality of breast milk and calorie content I can confidently say there is 20 kcals per oz formula and 15-40 kcals in breast milk dependant on mother time of feed, food eaten by mother and a million other factors [info from WHO, La leche, HV, Nutirition.org]
Actually I am now more concerned about the quality and calories in baby tinned pasta The 'Healthy' one is the worst one Now the decision is do I become all pfb and dump all I have in cupboard read all labels of all food for dd and plant a veg garden [bear in mind I killed the herb garden] or just be realistic feed her what is in the cupboard as it never killed DP

scottishmummy · 27/04/2010 21:36

monomaniacal rants are alarmist,unempathic and have bombastic tendencies.and there can be a vociferous minority on mn

tiktok · 27/04/2010 23:30

Oh my goodness, scottishmummy. You have discovered the internet

Mumsnet has its share of the monomaniacal ranting etc etc, but a good deal less than elsewhere, I would say.

(And of course a lot more than fluffymums.com and niceparentswithglitterytickers.co.uk)

Iggi999 · 28/04/2010 00:04

I know it's a debate from a few pages back but I feel the need to stick up for the bf leaflets - I did teach myself how to latch on from a bf magazine thingy that I got in hospital. Helped me more than the mws shoving my boob in DS's mouth anyway.

Jaquelinehyde · 28/04/2010 01:10

My advice to any new Mum feeling low because they aren't bfing is this; there are so many pieces of advise being given out, so many offical guidlines, and so many stats bandied around about how best to bring up a child you will never be able to do them all. Do what is best for you, and your family.

If anyone inparticular upsets/annoys you with there perfect mother/parenting advice, just remember you will in the future do something that fits all the guidelines that they don't. When you find that thing no matter how small it is, hunt them down and go on, and on, and on about it. When they get upset about how they are not doing what is best for little Johhny, then tell them they are being over sensitive and you thought they should just know the facts.

Henny1995 · 28/04/2010 02:29

Seriously, you fed your child and your child is thriving. I bf'd for 5 years and so what. Chill out, you're doing fine. x

RubyBuckleberry · 28/04/2010 06:01

'In true bullying fashion you get the few extremely unpleasant posters then the others who in true cowardly fashion like to nod and agree and egg said scaremongers on. Just as nasty and just as irritating.'

bullying?
unpleasant?
cowardly fashion?
egg scaremongers on?
nasty?

come. on. get. some. perspective.

MilaMae · 28/04/2010 10:40

Ah "perspective",that would be great when when discussing ff.

If some very pro bf posters kept managed to keep it all in "perspective" a bit more I'm not sure this thread would have even been started.

tittybangbang · 28/04/2010 11:57

It's all a matter of how important you see this issue as being.

Some of us think it's important that so few babies get a physiologically normal diet. Generally we arrive at that view after long periods spent reading, studying and talking to other people. Some of us also have a professional as well as a personal interest in this issue.

And some - like you - don't believe it's important enough to be worth discussing.

So why the heck do you always pop up on these threads slagging off those of us who are interested and wanting to engage in a debate about it as 'obsessive' and 'lacking in perspective'? Actually, it's not everyone who posts repeatedly on these threads who gets labelled as 'obsessive'. It's the people who repeatedly challenge the view that it doesn't matter how a baby is fed. Every else is free to blather on at length without fear of censure.

Why not just ignore the thread if you don't think the subject is important enough to warrant time spent on discussing it?

coralanne · 28/04/2010 12:36

I'm so glad the internet wasn't around when my DC were born. I think I would have worried myself to death.

My babies were born, I BF them for 10 or 11 months.

My best friend had a DS 4 months before I had DS and she FF him from the word go. Neither of us thought it strange or unpleasant what the other one was doing.

It was such a beautiful time, like being in a cocoon.

I can't imagine what it would be like to have a new born baby and be strung out and stressed by constantly looking at threads in cyberspace and being upset by them.

AitchTwoZone · 28/04/2010 13:13

well i can't either, coralanne, but if it did, i wouldn't blame the internet for existing, i'd think the responsibility would lie with myself for giving so much of a shit about what strangers on the internet thought.

tittybangbang · 28/04/2010 14:00

"I can't imagine what it would be like to have a new born baby and be strung out and stressed by constantly looking at threads in cyberspace and being upset by them"

Yes, which begs the question - why the buggery bollocks do the same people keep popping up on these threads complaining about how upset this information makes them feel. If it's so distressing, why the heck do they keep reading it?

But then the same people who say they find this information distressing and guilt inducing also tend to say they think it's complete bollocks and they don't believe any of it anyway.

Bit confusing.

MilaMae · 28/04/2010 16:13

It's not the info Titty as you well know it's the twisting of stats,lack of sensitivity and basic lack of perspective over what is basically a parenting issue in a long line of parenting issues.

As has been said before we all know breast is best in the same way we know that a healthy diet low in fat is best. Plenty of exercise is better for children. A baby being in the care of it's mother for the 1st year is also best.

Unfortunately we can't always parent the way we want,it's not always that easy and we can compensate for not being able to feed or care for our children in the way we might choose.

Unlike the subject of bf you never read the vast amount of doom laden info created from twisted facts on subjects such as TV,crappy food,babies in childcare,lack of exerciseetc. People engage in sensitivity and just accept we all know what we should do but it's all about balance and what is actually possible.

Giving children a healthy diet with plenty of exercise whilst providing stimulating activities and limiting screen time will have far more of an impact on a child's future health than 6 months of breast milk. So lets keep things in perspective folks and quit with the scaremongering.No baby is doomed because it had formula and no child is guaranteed lifelong health because they were breast fed.

AitchTwoZone · 28/04/2010 16:19

"Unlike the subject of bf you never read the vast amount of doom laden info created from twisted facts on subjects such as TV,crappy food,babies in childcare,lack of exerciseetc. "

lol. i take it you've never seen Honey I Killed The Kids?

MilaMae · 28/04/2010 16:27

Not on Mumsnet no

tittybangbang · 28/04/2010 16:50

"It's not the info Titty as you well know it's the twisting of stats"

No - that's not true. I've been told that I'm spouting propaganda and statistical nonsense when I mention the medical evidence on this subject, when I only ever refer to studies which are referred to in up to date midwifery textbooks produced by the Royal College of Midwives, or from NHS sponsored patient information. People will simply not accept that there is good quality evidence that there are risks associated with ff - no matter where the research comes from or who it's been vetted by.

"lack of sensitivity and basic lack of perspective over what is basically a parenting issue in a long line of parenting issues"

Bollocks that it's just another parenting issue. The almost wholesale switch to giving babies non-human milk is the most profound and fasted change in the whole history of human nutrition, a change that's been accelerated by intense commercial pressure and a devastating ignorance about the physiology of breastfeeding among health professionals. It's not equivalent to the dummy debate, or controlled crying, and frankly it's infuriating that people try to portray it as such.

"As has been said before we all know breast is best in the same way we know that a healthy diet low in fat is best.

No - it's no 'best'. Human milk is the physiologically normal food for babies. You can't compare this issue with any other.

"Unfortunately we can't always parent the way we want"

98% of women can breastfeed, given the right support and in some countries 98% of women do. If you want to breastfeed you should be able to do it, and if lots of people can't we should be shouting very loudly 'why the bloody hell not!' instead of encouraging people to think that breastfeeding failure is normal.

"Giving children a healthy diet with plenty of exercise whilst providing stimulating activities and limiting screen time will have far more of an impact on a child's future health than 6 months of breast milk. "

Actually - you really don't know this. Where is your evidence? The long term impact of infant feeding is an incredibly complex issue and very difficult to research.

"So lets keep things in perspective folks and quit with the scaremongering.No baby is doomed because it had formula and no child is guaranteed lifelong health because they were breast fed."

You call it 'scaremongering', I call it 'knowing what the medical evidence on infant feeding says'.

Some babies are 'doomed' because they don't have breastmilk. Do some reading on NEC, which is vastly more common in ff babies:
www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Necrotising-Enterocolitis-(NEC).htm

The Royal College of Midwives estimate that over a hundred babies a year die from NEC who wouldn't die had they had breast milk.

And then of course there's the link between higher rates of SIDS and artificial feeding. And higher rates of type 1 diabetes (which is a life limiting disease) and artificial feeding.

So even in the UK some babies WILL experience SERIOUS health problems associated with a lack of breastmilk.

And then you come along saying: 'it's all nonsense - don't worry - it won't make any difference to your baby'. And I say to you - how do you know? How can you give people these assurances? I know where I get my information from. Where does your certainty that it doesn't matter come from? Other than anecdotal evidence?

AitchTwoZone · 28/04/2010 16:56

hahaha you've never seen people say that kids watch too much tv, do too little exercise or eat crappy food? on MN?

you really gotta get off these bfing threads and see the world a bit, mila.

MilaMae · 28/04/2010 16:56

Jesus I rest my case-that post took up my entire screen,has to be a record even for you !!!!

MiladyDeWinter · 28/04/2010 17:02

"a healthy diet low in fat is best"

Just to be pedantic , not for babies and toddlers it isn't, unlike BF and exercise. I'm sure you know that but lots of people don't.

MilaMae · 28/04/2010 17:04

You're right Milady,when do you have to watch fat intake?

MilaMae · 28/04/2010 17:04

Sorry 'start watching' out of interest