to think it's not helpful when people are overly negative about FF?

[lunartictoc]

Hi
Have been reading boards for a while under a different name, but wanted to post slightly contentious issue under new name.
AIBU to think that when discussing the merits of BF V FF, it is really unhelpful when some BF advocates try to strengthen their case with really negative comments/facts/ideas about FF? ie discussing how F-fed children are more prone to illness (including serious, like cancer) that it can lead to health problems for mothers, that it can cause obesity etc? I absolutely catergorically cannot BF my DS as much as I would have loved to - it is medically impossible. So I did a bit of research on FF, and many search engine results point here to MN. It scared me half to death reading what some posters have said about FF - I have no option, and without FF my son would have no milk at all! Some statistics (and indeed vitriol from the more judgemental posters) have just made me feel so upset and that I am being a bad mother, and damaging my DS in some way. I understand that pro-BF parents are keen to educate, and I understand that many F-feeders do so due to lack of support/education etc, but I think that there are many better ways to get across this message. Perhaps I am being over-sensitive, but some comments have really upset me! AIBU?

loving the dance metaphor

reminds me of 'women who run with the wolves' and all that jazz

X posts with titty.....

The reason we're seeing rocketing obesity is the large amounts of fatty crap kids are eating and a sedentary lifestyle, surely you know that .

'The reason we're seeing rocketing obesity is the large amounts of fatty crap kids are eating...'

That is probably right, although the evidence is, as Tiktok points out, there for people to see.

I have read before that fat cells and their existence have a great deal to do with childhood. If you have say, 300 fat cells, when you eat fatty foods as an adult, these cells get bigger (as opposed to multiply like they do in childhood). If you have only 50 fat cells, when you eat fatty foods as an adult, these get bigger, but you will be less fat than the person with 300 fat cells because 300 bigger fat cells is fatter than 50 bigger fat cells.

If FF causes babies change the way they lay down fat, this may impact on later life, regardless of what they eat.

(This does not apply to just FF incidentally - eating as a young child was what I read about - it just made me think of it and I thought it was quite interesting!)

Do you even read what people post here, MilaMae? Or do you decide what you think people think, and then respond to that?

I don't think, nor have I said, that childhood obesity is solely due to formula feeding.

I am clearly wasting my time writing thoughtful, nuanced posts which acknowledge the many factors involved in health and indeed obesity.

It is not in the least controversial to point up the way infant feeding is a factor in obesity, by mechanisms we have yet to fully understand. This accounts for infant feeding - inc bf/ff - being part of the Government's and indeed local obesity strategies. Support for breastfeeding, training HCPs in support, and improving educational materials on infant feeding, are all part of this strategy.

You have a bad memory of bf because of events outside your own control, because you did not breastfeed for as long as you wanted to and did not have a good experience. I am sorry about that - your story is not rare, sadly, and many women have a bad time.

The answer is not to continually look for ways to minimise any suggestion that the way babies in general are fed matters - 'cos it does. I humbly suggest you will be more comfortable in your skin if you just accept this, accepting that in your individual case an early cessation of bf was necessary for the well-being of your individual babies.

I beg your pardon I am perfectly comfortable in my own skin,how rude to suggest otherwise and I'm perfectly aware of what was necessary for my babies.

Please don't infer that I have "ishooos" because I bf for shorter than was intended as I don't. I have 3 very healthy,bright children so have an awful lot to be happy about and very little to have "ishoos" about.

People are allowed to challenge posts about the way formula is portrayed without inferences being made that they have some kind of psychological damage. It's very patronising and not actually a very nice thing to do.

My experience has nowt to do with wanting some balance and perspective when discussing formula,you read plenty of exasperated posts from very experienced bfs wanting this too.

Sheesh. I did not suggest you had any form of psychological damage, FFS....just how thin is your skin (that you may or may not be comfortable in ), or is it just you don't read posts properly, as I suggested before?

You are, however, keen to 'minimise any suggestion that the way babies in general are fed matters' are you not?

Why would that be, then?

I'm keen to minimise any suggestion that bf is the be all and end all of a baby/child's health. It isn't.

And the reason for that I'm an experienced mum of 3 who believes in balance and perspective when making/thinking about parenting choices.

Please don't infer otherwise just to belittle what I have to say.

Honestly.

Aren't mumsnet users supposed to be amongst the most educated of forum users?

Evidence my backside. Studies here, studies there.. evidence is never incontrovertible, particularly on the less tangible benefits of breastfeeding.

I say this as someone who is very pro-bfing. I just don't believe it is The Magic Elixir Of Life

But just who is saying, or implying, or posting, here or anywhere else (though I'd ask you to include mumsnet specifically) that breastfeeding is the be-all and end-all of baby/child health?

Upthread you talk about not just a couple but 'far too many' posters who talk like this. You refuse to name them, but you could give examples of what they have said.

Who are they?

And this is not to belittle you but I cannot fully understand you if you do not distinguish between 'infer' and 'imply'. They are not synonyms, and getting it right will help you be clearer in what you say.

What a great contribution to the debate, mrsbean

'Evidence is never incontrovertible' - er, true enough, and.....?

'Studies here, studies there....' oooooh, a killer blow

So no matter what research you read, you say 'huh, evidence is never incontrovertible,' do you?

Well then, controvert it...go on!

No one has said bf is the magic elixir of life...it would be silly, and wrong, and be just about as daft as saying, oh I dunno....'studies here, studies there.'

Exactly MrsBean, how very dare we question the evidence or the research into BF, I mean if we do , it simply means we are uneducated, illiterate, on benefits etc.... (some of the many comments Ive seen or heard)or we are selfish

OP I understand where you are coming from, its such a emotive subject, and close to many hearts, Its not the BF that's the matter, its the judgy pants, scaremongering, and "I thinks" WHAT IS THE PROBLEM!

I rest my case!

I rest my case also!

Who? Who is scaremongering? Who is the 'I thinks'? Who is the judgy pants?

And who has accused you of being uneducated, illiterate or on benefits?

I've seen nothing but reasoned, evidence-based arguments from Titty and TikTok. If people listened to what they had to say instead of jumping intantly into defensive, shouty mode, they might learn something.

Not this thread carmen, I had a massive "discussion" on here a few months back, and a twit on here called me uneducated, not doing the best for my son, selfish, not understanding my sons medical needs, also all the disadvantages of FF statistics as FACTS instead of possibilities.

I was quoting Mrsbeans post at just a general post, not a post aimed at anybody.

I was on that thread if it was the notorious 'cancer' one. If we're raking up old threads, I don't think you did any favours calling people who disagreed with you, "Ignorant twats", "plebs", "dicks", "muppets" etc. etc.

Perhaps that didn't help your case in looking 'educated'?

Erm it was not the cancer one, that was a different one, and if somebody is saying to me that I dont understand my child's medical needs, or that I am selfish, a disgrace, etc for NOT breastfeeding, what am I going to say, I take your point! that woman was very rude and quite simply all of the above!

The idiot, was very rude and she crossed the line, she was all the above as has been proven!

If we accept that we can't point to a single case of ill health and say it was down to formula feeding, fine. As long as the same is said for other lifestyle related health issues.

Lets forget research methods, obviously the researchers haven't thought this through at all.

Sorrry of course I meant, as we can't point to a single case of ill health and attribute it to ff then that means there is no link at all.

who said forget them

I was ff and im fine
my friend's DD was bf & is always ill
There's no evidence...they're always changing their minds...too many factors...a healthy diet is much more important than bf or ff

that sort of comment, let's ignore accepted scientific knowledge as it doesn't fit with what we think we see

But that's not forgetting them now, is it, that's just idiotic and erm dribble lol! x

My children dont have peanut allergy, but their father does................

Love the way MrsHappy remembers one poster who made some very unkind and illogical comments - and decides to use her views and comments as being representative of all of us here advocating for breastfeeding.