In thinking that people with faith or religion are deluded?

[Alouiseg]

This stems from another couple of threads i'm on but until God can be proven isn't religion just an outdated patriachal method of control?

BitOfFun...second time today you've made me nearly spit my drink across the room!!!

gosh that's a lot of people you feel superior to

enjoy

Riven - I would LOVE to meet your DD - and of course I'll be bringing my DS's with me too.

Need to start hunting for cheap hotel/b&b/similar actually I'm talking nonsense - it's not may - it's June - first week of June at some point.

I hope you're not going to be wearing explosives under your clothes.........I may bring my bible and cross to protect myself

I'm fairly sure there's enough rapists/murderers who also aren't of 'faith' OP

It's not just exclusively religious people who 'rape babies'.

Nice one with the inflammatory language though (you're making yourself sound like a right loon.

will send you a message on FB once I've got more concrete plans

There are positive and negative elements to religion. Obviously people with no religion do awful things as well - Stalin being an obvious example.

Religion does offer people a lot of comfort, but it does offer a very blunt form of moral guidance, as so much of it is based on guidance from a book written to guide people in a different time and place. I think we should all aiming to be a bit more sophisticated in our moral arguments and religion holds us back.

On a separate point, there may or may not be supernatural stuff going on. I don't think we should be messing about with it, either in church, a mosque or through a ouija board.

Religion offers people a meaningful cultural experience, as well as emotional comfort, and our society can be a bit short on authentic, meaningful experiences.

Proof is a mathematical term, by the way. Neither religion or science is really about proof.

Yup, bad things are done by lots of people but to do them in the name of religion or faith makes people question it's validity and rightly so.

I am perfectly aware that America is secular, so's Turkey.

I find that religions expect tolerance from others but create an atmosphere of intolerance around them.

For example, Catholic priests are celibate (apparently) but when they systematically abuse children they form a closed shop to protect themselves and 'the church'. I could not be a Catholic for that very reason.

That's why it bothers me because i'm expected to tolerate it, smile sweetly and let the vicar put his hand up my dress.

I disagree. Choosing to believe in something that is completely unproven, and following that religion with all that it requires, takes a much stronger belief and commitment than simply not believing. I said supposed to believe or accept to demonstrate the meaning of atheist, nothing more.

Why would a vicar put his hand up your dress?!

greensleeves

I am genuinely sorry for any offence I caused..

you are sooo right of course human decency is not exclusive to those of us with faith..

my post was rather clumsy.. apologies

Are you the vicar's wife?

frasersmummy I am not offended! I am used to a rather robust tone to these debates, sorry if I was too forceful x

Oh...I'm going. If OP actually had any clue, I might stay and debate. Ain't so...
Off to bed then!

I'd be quite shocked if my vicar put her hand up my skirt as well

a) because I don't think I'm really her type

b) because I never wear skirts

MillyR...ROFL!! Thanks for that!

lol at Milly "are you the vicars wife"

Alousie - stop being a numpty - you question the people doing the abusing, not the GOD they (and others) believe in.

Evil acts are carried out by people, not the God you don't believe in.

Maybe it's why I hate, loathe and detest any religion.

Not just because it's a load of tripe.

MaisietheMorningsideCat, you misunderstand me...

I am not saying that Narnia exists any more or less than Heaven or Hell does- I used it as an example to compare to OP's belief that Africa exists when she has no proof.

My point is, we all (athiests included) choose to believe in things we have no proof of.

Religion has historically been used (and is still used today) by the state as a means of controlling the masses- it is not simply a case of 'let others believe what they want'; The OP has a point here.

I just don't think the way to combat that control is to try and 'disprove' the existence of god.

Doesn't the nature of 'faith' by its very definition require no proof?

You hate, loathe and detest any religion becuase the vicar puts his (her?) hand up your dress?

It really doesn't matter if they are deluded. When it comes to faith, whatever makes you happy and gets you through life is fine.

If it makes you happy to think that when you die you go on to a perfect place where you'll be happy forever - great

If it makes you happy to think that when you die you are reborn - great

If it makes you happy to think that when you die you cease to exist and your body becomes worm food - great.

Religion doesn't make people abuse others, or blow things up. That's something they do because there is something wrong with them, as an individual.