To be hacked off over "contaminated"heroin.

[fallon8]

I may have pressed wrong button and posted this elsewhere,I aplogise if I have.
Dog walking, thinking time.
Why does Radio Scotland in droning voice keep telling us that ex amount of peolple have died thru taking comtaminted heroin? Apparently is contains Anthrax and a few bods have died. Surely, they shouldnt be taking the bloody stuff in the first place.
Thru' no fault of my own,I have been treated for Breast Cancer 4 times and continue on long term stuff to try and keep it at bay. I sometimes have to argue my case to get a more expensive drug which has less side effects.Why should resources which could be spent on me and others like me be used for twats who bring it on themselves? Dont mention, smoking, too much alchohol, obesity either!!! To get into the Chemo Room,you rung the gauntlet of patients hooked up to their treatment fagging it outside,i know they maybe on the way out, but I dont care,but why waste the cash? I know, I know, I shouldnt let it get to me,but it does.

Addiction is a real disease!

The revenue from taxes on fags and booze fund our NHS service. How far do you want to unpick this OP.

Fallon8 you do not sound like someone who is grateful for the nhs and what they have done for you nor do you seem to have learned any compassion or ability to see teh bigger picture as a result of what you've been through,You might need some help to deal with the bitterness tbh as it seems to be eating you away

Addiction is not a disease.

There is no underlying pathology. It is not something someone has. It is not a tumour, or a seizure. Addiction is not involuntary. Behaviour and disease are different.

Addiction can have an impact on health. Addressing that is part of the recovery, but they are secondary to the main problem. The person's compulsive nature and their susceptibility to their drug of choice.

It depends how you see it having experienced it first hand I think and many doctors agree that it is because it cannot be cured only managed.Anyway i am hardly going to agree with you and your outmoded views you make DP look reasonable

It's a disputed point:-

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_model_of_addiction

But not a very relevant one. Whatever causes addiction there are medical consequences that the NHS pays for and societal ones that everyone pays for. Cheaper to treat the addiction.

Even better to address the lifestyle issues that cost us FAR more to treat.

Sorry - link link

Addicts get benefits daily not weekly, methinks that's what mal meant.

The facts are that the NHS cannot cope with the demands that are being placed on it. So at what point do we stop saying that people can eat/drink/smoke themselves to death but let's not worry cos the taxes that we get from selling the fags and booze in the first place pay for the treatments people need ? because to be honest, that argument doesn't really sway it for me. At what point do we say STOP - you are KILLING yourself? At what point do we acknowledge that banning smoking will reduce a huge strain on the NHS ? At what point will we force parents not only to LISTEN to the advice about childhood obesity but to ACT on it and stop condemning their kids to a lifetime of disease and ill health ? Addcition is a very real and serious disease - of course it is. But how many times have we heard and experienced first hand, the desperate lack of resources needed to help addicts and treat their mental illness? Is it not too simplistic to say that ANYONE can do ANYTHING that they want to themselves and the NHS should pick up the tab ? Did anyone else read the link i posted about the kids hospitals. paediatricians are having to devote huge amounts of resources towards treating childhood illnesses which are TOTALLY preventable. One of them even talks about funds not being available for cancer care. Why are people so dismissive of the idea of personal responsibility for our own health ?

Interested in genuine debate because it really does puzzle me, and having worked in the NHS for a lot of years, I sometimes think that I'm nearer to finding the answers, but then threads like this confuse me yet more.

The NHS spends something like 4% on prevention. That need to be increased.

I work in teenage mental health and type out the family reports of the children who many, I am sure, will go on to become heroin users - it is dreadfully sad but you have to rtemember that we all are different and have different lives and ways of coping - and if it means some people go on to use heroin to cope with whathas happened to them then that is really sad but we have to treat the cause and that is often disfunctional familes and abuse.

You had a tough upbringing as I did but nothing would ever prepare you for a glimpse of what some of the children who come through our doors experience - it breaks my heart to even look at them, the horrors that they have experienced, the love that they have never had or have had too much of in ways that would turn your stomach - they need love, understanding and I really hope that at some stage in your life you meet someone like that and you hear their storey and you understand that your feelings are misguided and find the compassion inside of you that I am sure is there because as a mother you couldn't but want to reach out to these poor kids and try and help them.

And really from my point of view and the harm it causes - make pot/weed/marajuana totally illegal and give out very very harsh ponalties for its use.

You cannot cure cancer or heal a broken bone through willpower alone. You can however stop taking drugs/smoking/drinking/overeating.

It degrades illness, the scientists and doctors who treat it and the patients who fight it to class addiction as a disease.

Of course the biggest risk factor for illness is poverty. So if someone can't be bothered to work hard enough at school to get a decent job we should definitely bar them from treatment.

So we ban cig, then alcohol follows after all some people become ill because of it. Where exactly does the government get the money they lose back from?

'At what point do we acknowledge that banning smoking will reduce a huge strain on the NHS '

Will it, what are the figures for how much tax on cigs put into the NHS and how much smoking related illnesses take out?

It isn';t the NHS who pick up the tab, it's tax payers and last time i looked we all do that in one way or another, so again who decides who is worthy?

Alouiseg - do you also tell depressed people to just pull themselves together?

No oojimaflip I don't because depression is not something a person actively seeks out. There is also recognisable pathology for depression. Therefore it is a disease rather than a behaviour.

'You can however stop taking drugs/smoking/drinking/overeating. '

Not everyone can, does that mean they are weak, or does it mean they have a disease? some bones heal by themselves some don't should those people whose bones need help be ignored because they aren't as able? What about birth, should c-sections be banned after all plenty other mums give birth naturally?

If medical profesionals can't decide whether it is or it isn't a disease who exactly are you to decide?

Alouiseg Does that go for all invisible illnesses as well?

I don't see why the distinction makes any difference to how or if you treat people.

AlouiseG How about eating disorders? Should they be classed as diseases in your opinion? They've brought it on themselves haven't they?

oojimaflip It soesn't and shouldn't. But some people think it does

Well exactly Kaloki, all they have to do is eat/not throw up after all.

C sections are given to prevent harm to Mother or baby.

Bones can heal but it's very unusual for a major bone to heal correctly without medical intervention.

You can lock an addict in a room and get them clean within a few days sometimes weeks without any medical intervention.

Well. I am an ex-heroin addict, I have posted about this fact previously on mumsnet.

I did not claim benefits while using.
I worked, for several years, while using, until I literally became too ill (having blackouts, probably a few weeks away from organ failure / hospitalisation).
Yes I had a shite awful childhood and I took drugs as a teenager to block everything out. I was anorexic at 13, clinically depressed at 16, heroin addict at 19 and very swiftly addicted to crack cocaine and methadone as well. Junkies aren't born junkies, they start off as people, OP.

I decided when I was 24 that I would rather die than carry on living like that, and it took me a year to really turn myself around.

So now I am a Proper Person. I drive a car. I own property. I am clever, and funny, I am a wife and mother. And it really truly pisses me off that I keep hearing people talk about 'junkies' and 'scumbags' as they are talking about me. Who cares if junkies die, right? A huge number of junkies were victims of sexual abuse, rape, and / or domestic violence. Yes they will beg borrow or steal to get money to stave off the sickness of wthdrawal for another day, another few hours. I feel sorry for the poor bastards as I have been there.

And in all my years in the system, I have never been whisked away to rehab, never had any access to drug counselling of any sort, in fact I have been turned away from numerous counselling services as they 'don't deal with drug issues.' Services are slim, huge waiting lists, and addicts are often made to feel like they really are scum, even if they are truly, really seeking help and trying to turn themselves around.

So don't fall for the myth that junkies get everything and you, OP, are getting the shitty end of the stick as a result. I hope that you make a good recovery, and that your experiences don't make you bitter. Try to have compassion for other people who are in bad situations, no matter how they got there.

Good luck.