to think that women who have been dumped for someone else are particularly susceptible to moaning more than anyone else whose relationship has ended?

[GinggerCatty]

Have spent 2 hours this afternoon in the company of my friend, listening to yet another aminamted out-pouring of bile about her soon to be ex DH and the "evil OW", who she now appears to be cyber-stalking. I was once sympathetic to the my friend, whose (apparently) happy marriage was wrecked by the living incarnation of Cruella De Ville, but after 18 months of her incessant whining, the only thing I feel is mind-numblingly bored.

I think I am a sympathetic person. It's just that as when I think about it, I know many women whose relationships have ended in very unhappy circumstances. Bereavements, horribly tragic young widows, friends who left violent men, or ones who drank too much, or gambled every penny, or marriages that just fell apart when spouses grew up ... but, IME, there does seem to be something about the experience of being left for another woman that generates more self-righteous fury than any other end, however tragic.

She wants to meet for coffee again tomorrow. I want to shout ONLY IF YOU PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER FIRST

Ok, I know I am being unreasonable, but am a being very unreasonable?

ah give pink smarties a break, she has clearly been through the mill on this one

Op I know your op sounds rather hardhearted but I think I would be struggling after 18 months too.
I have a friend who moans about something all the time and it is very draining for the person listening. It drags you down. I decided to take a little step back. I'm still there listening and very much involved but people (we) have our own lives and our own problems and a little space was needed.

Does she ask how you're doing?

Thing is that she has an ideal object for her hatred and obsession. If her relationship had just broken down, she'd have had to look at herself and the actual relationship.

The longer she focusses on the OW, the longer it will take for her to get over this.

I do think that 18m is now long enough, and understand your patience is wearing thin.

Sad to say, you are going to have to start being a little straight with her. Sit her down and tell her the stalking is a waste of her time, and not entirely within the bounds of the law if she were to take it too far.

Try and get her to see that he has gone and that she will, very soon, see that she is worth so much more than a cheating lowlife that can't keep it in his pants.

If she won't listen to you first off, you will need to tell her to get some professional help.

The poor woman to be so consumed by this, that ExH is not worth this.

She either needs to move on with her life and "let him go" or get professional help to allow her to "let him go".

I don't believe that this type of split is more painful than losing a partner to death. I have been through a marriage breakup where he had an affair and she was pregnant but I also watched my mum lost my dad to illness when he was only 52.

I have the rest of my life to look forward to and create happiness which I have done but my mum is still in love with my dad nearly 8 years after his passing and will never be with anyone else after being married to him for 30 years. To me that is a life sentence. People who have lost a partner to someone else need to realise that life goes on and the only person that is stopping you getting a life is yourself. We all have painful feelings that we constantly carry around with us from friendship betrayals to bereavement but we don't all sit and bitch constantly about the new woman or the ex just to satisfy the deep jealousy about him getting a life after you.

So after 18 months of listening to your friend I would be talking very straight with her and YANBU at all for having the thoughts you are having.

I think op is completely fair - I think the sense of betrayal and impotence this kind of split leads to can take over every other element of life which ISNT healthy for her friend at all - EIGHTEEN MONTHS devoted to being utterly miserable and furious when her partner is happy with a new life is eighteen wasted month. Stalking is illegal and frankly worrying and I am afraid that I think after six months, regardless of the time of relationship, if you still feel unable to move on you need to seek pro help. Allowing her friend to wallow in self pity isnt helping her, its encouraging her.

"People who have lost a partner to someone else need to realise that life goes on and the only person that is stopping you getting a life is yourself."

That is equally valid for someone losing a partner to death.

BTW, I'm not saying that being widowed is "better" or worse than betrayal. Both have different shite circumstances and emotions.

You're wrong in your hypothesis and not very nice to boot

and certainly not this woman's 'friend'

AND you misquoted the troll code, which always really hacks me off. It's LIFElines.

YANBU some people love to wollow in it

YABU AND a bitch !!
My very dear best friend has listened to me moan and winge for the last few bad years of my marriage, and on and off for the last 4 years we have been split!
She is a wonderful friend, I dont moan all the time, but when I do need to (because yes you daft cow, my XH is still around in my life with his tart, playing happy families with MY children, so yes excuse me if I am still a tad bitter and angry), she is there to listen!

Nasty cruel generalisation, and such a caring friend too!

Wow YADBU. What a horribly offensive thing you have written. No wonder Pink Smarties is upset. I haven't read everything, I can't stomach it quite frankly.

I don't actually think you can compare someone being terminally ill or passing away with adultery. Or say that one or the other is worse. It doesn't matter which is harder etc. Her situation is adultery and divorce and that is what she is struggling with right now.

If you're living through a painful divorce due to adultery, you find it terribly terribly hard and she thought you were someone she could share with (your friend) someone she could trust and feel safe with to share these horribly painful feelings with, yes its 18 months but until the divorce is over and done with, all the hurt and pain will keep resurfacing. Until you've been there OP you will not understand and I feel sorry for your friend that you have even written this post. If she knew, she'd be mortified I suspect

I wish I could call her myself and suggest she finds a good friend to talk to and not you, as this is a cruel thing to even post and just unkind.

Yes everyone who goes through a divorce will need time and counseling to move on but you also need your friends to have your back, support, encourage you and listen when your full of hurt and pain at the betrayal.

I'm getting divorced, my husband had an affair and we have 2 small children. The mess and destruction and pain is awful.

Your thread is highly offensive.

macdoodle - don't think there is any call for the name-calling.

I agree with what others have said and what Joolly said at the beginning. I can't imagine how awful it is to be widowed young. But if they leave you for OW, I think thta could be worse. Becasue they have chosen.
You need to be a better friend and tell her that she has to politely stop talking about it/get some counselling. But to be honest, actually I don't think 18 mths is that long.
But we all know people who won't change the record. I had a uni friend thta couldn't get a decent job and had underfulfilled becasue her mother never encouraged her academically. It was painful and in the end i told her.
Mind you that was after about 6 years.

Actually 18 months isnt very long especially if it is ongoing, my XH played me and the tart for well over a year, my dear friend used to take me out for dinner to hear the latest saga AND support me, and I'd cry and lean on her!!

Am betting your friend doesnt moan all the time, maybe she m,ade the mistake of thinking you were a friend she could depend and lean on! Seems she was wrong, best you go find some happy friends!

There are a lot of women who make it their life's mission to get revenge or make life hell for their ex partner. OP said that her friend also appears to be cyber-stalking the ex. Nobody seems to have mentioned that point.

You can't say she is being a rubbish friend just because she is getting bored of listening to the same things day in day out. Her friend sounds like she has a screw loose to be frank.

Everyone needs time to get over a relationship break up whether adultery is involved or not but there has to be a point when you make the decision to help yourself and get on with your life. For me, I took two years out to sort myself out after my husband left me 9 months pregnant for another woman who also turned out to be pregnant but I swear I would be totally embarrassed and affronted if I did nothing but complained to my friends about his ex and the latest instalment of their life as opposed to creating a new one and moving on with mine.

I don't understand why people think it is ok to behave like a loose cannon if adultery is involved. Adultery seems to be the justification for no end of behaviour from ex-wives and to be honest, to me, it is just an excuse for self-pity and poor behaviour.

Friendship is meant to be equal so for as much as OP's friend is taking from her, what exactly is she giving back into the relationship?

It is a two-way thing - pretty much like her marriage and look how that ended...

Ob, I disagree - having been left by a bloke and it was one of the most intensely awful a,d mindnumbing experiences of my life, I still think being bereaved is worse, simply because the person does NOT choose.

But of course both things are terrible and the one with the being left scenario is usually an ongoing saga because you need to stay in touch for children etc. Although with a bereavement you have the constant reminder with the children.

Neither is good, both need long term listening and help and it doesn't just stop when the person leaves or dies.

I wouldn't mind if I really liked the person. Suggesting ways they can improve their own outlook is fine, if done tactfully etc but starting a stupid thread like this is just bizarre.

Lol, shiney

MN isn't a helpline in the first place, innit

perhaps they should start one though.

It's the betrayal you see. and bing able to blame someone. Just hope a similar thing never hap[pens to you and you get to understand it for yourself, eh?

Fruity - sometimes as a friend you do have nothing to give. Hopefully it swings in roundabouts though. I think when you're going through a trauma of divorce and adultery you spend so much time in emotional anguish the last thing on your mind is giving back to your relationship with your friend sometimes.

I don't agree with stalking the OW but I suspect the friend is struggling and I don't blame her.

But until the divorce is finalised all the hurt will keep rising to the surface as I said. Also the manner of the betrayal and what exactly her H has done to her can compound the pain and make it far far worse. So you may seem to have dealt with it well fruity but not everyone can be as strong as you. It depends on many factors.

It did also occur to me that it took a number of good friends several long heart felt discussions with me, to finally persuade me to get on the waiting list for counseling. As its a big step and not a comfortable one for many. Maybe the OP should keep gently suggesting counseling, as my good friends did until I finally realised they were talking sense.

teaandcake - I completely understand what you are saying and don't begrudge anyone the need for help and support but some people do take it to the limit just because they want to be self-pitying rather than taking the help and support to get back on their feet again.

The betrayal of being left for an OW is hard to take.

I didn't understand what it felt like until it happened to me. In fact, I feel embarrassed now at how little support I gave to a friend years ago who had a similar experience - I wasn't unhelpful, I just didn't understand because it hadn't happened to me.

I have had plenty of death and loss in my life and have found XH/OW harder to get over than that. Even I have been surprised by that but it's nevertheless true. In my instance there are some DC issues that pre-dated OW and, to be honest, the thing that has been hardest to get over is the fact that XH knew how this would impact those issues and did it anyway. So the DC issues are bigger now as a result of his actions and I am dealing with that alone.

If you feel as you do, I'd suggest that you point her to those that can be more supportive and that can empathise with her situation.

And to those who are still feeling the impact of betrayal, I'd recommend leaving the thread and going somewhere a little more positive. There are many really helpful and supportive people on MN who will help you at times when you want to talk.

OP, please ignore other people telling you you are a terrible friend and a bitch, you obviously want your friend to get better, feel better about the situation.
you have been an extremely supportive friend for 18months if it is ALL she can talk about. you are not not NOT being unreasonable, you want her to get BETTER and move ON with her life, that is a good thing.

if my friend talk CONSTANTLY about her bitter divorce every time i saw her for 18 months, id be pretty bloody fed up as well. you're allowed to FEEL something as well as care ya'know people.
aslong as she doesnt behave negatively towards her friend, only positive thoughts about moving on, WHAT IS THE HARM?