to be cross with my elderly fil about the meaning of easter

[nickschick]

Bit tongue in cheek really.

FIL was today bemoaning the fact that he couldnt go to tesco for his cigar supply as they were shut for Easter.

Its only Easter he said they could have had usual Sunday hours ,its not like Christmas or anything.....

ONLY EASTER?????? i SHOUTED - JESUS DIED ON A CROSS FOR US!!!! EASTER IS MORE SPECIAL THAN CHRISTMAS - YES EASTER IS IMPORTANT.

and that sais dh is why you should never discuss religion with a catholic especially not one who sat in a cold church for an hour and a half last night at the easter vigil.

"Tabithacat "Funny how the non-Christians still give and receive Christmas and Easter gifts though isn't it? Alright to respect the fun bits, but oh dear, when it's not convenient...""
What utter rubbish. What is Christian about easter eggs, or bunnies, or xmas trees, or gifts, or misletoe...or anything else? Please enlighten us.

And what attack on christians? We aren't allowed to say that we don't believe in it? To you its important, well for you, but to us its myths and legends. Why is that insulting to you?
Nobody is having a go at you for believing, noone has said you shouldn't or its wrong, so whats with the hysterical complaining about being attacked?

Onagar, You may feel superior in the knowledge you feel you hold but you are very rude and clearly show no respect for other people's beliefs.

Christianity is not untrue.

Fruitysunshine, can you explain you positition a bit more?

you say "I am not trying to force my religious believes on anyone else." and that sounds good to me.

You say "You do what you want but please do not insult my religion in the way you are." and that seems
ok (unless you count not observing your rituals insulting)

but then you say "I find it deeply offensive and it is contrary to your own argument of insisting we observe your right to do what you want without judgement or pressure."

So.. do you mean we shouldn't be insisting on our right to shop if we want against your wishes?

Or did it just come out wrong?

Many people have said that Easter to most people is about nothing more than chocolate eggs and a day off work. Yet they would deny that day off to many shop workers purely for their own convenience.

onagar did you read all of fruity's post?

Are shop workers some kind of protected species? I don't get the day off for easter, neither does my DH. Are shop workers a bit more special than the rest of us?

And what does this mean...."
Christianity is not untrue. "?

Your Easter Vigil lasted an hour and a half... Ours was 3 hours long!

Yanbu though. But some people just don't think of such holidays as having anything to do with religion at all. I sometimes find it hard to believe that they have gone through their whole life and come out so clueless though.

For example my dc's gps visited us yesterday morning, do give my dcs an easter egg, and asked if we had went outside and rolled an egg. When i said no, they were very defensive saying why not, that is what you do at easter, saying to my dc's (6mo and 2yo) ' aww thats terrible your mummy not even taking you out to roll your eggs'. But in the same visit asked me why there are crosses on my easter cards, as it's a bit 'morbid'. So roll an egg, but no cross. hmm.

It also annoys me how people expect chocolate eggs, double time at work, or days off, but they then have a moan at the buses running on Sunday times, or the local shop being closed.

Onagar,

I quietly hold my own beliefs, don't have a problem with other people wishing to go about their daily business any day of the week but I don't insult their lack of belief in a religion whilst they try to debate the issue. Some posters here wish Christians to observe their right to live how they want but they insult our religion in the process. That is not observing our right to live how we want without judgement or pressure.

If you know you are discussing a sensitive topic anyone would expect a degree of sensitivity to be applied to the posts of everyone involved and certainly typing controversial thoughts with diplomacy and maturity.

For example instead of saying Christianity is untrue how about "I don't believe in Christianity". At least that comes across in a respectful way to a fellow MNer. You don't believe and you are not insulting us at the same time.

Tell me it is "untrue" and you are insulting my whole way of life since I was born and you as an individual cannot say with 100% certainty that Christianity is untrue.

Shockers I did read all of fruity's post and agreed with most of it. That's why I asked about that one line which didn't seem to quite fit in. I'm expecting to find I misunderstood it.

Shop workers are different from many others who have to work on an Easter Sunday because a shop is not an essential service.

". But some people just don't think of such holidays as having anything to do with religion at all. I sometimes find it hard to believe that they have gone through their whole life and come out so clueless though."

So its ok for you to be rude about non-believers, but not ok for us to say anything at all about your religion. Nice

I read it as though she holds a personal belief... respects your right to shop, but finds your insistance on Christian bashing contrary to your views on freedom of the masses.

Fruitysunshine, cross posted there.

Ok here is the thing. I was replying to someone who came up with the old chestnut about how I wouldn't dare say anything bad about any other religion and I was demonstrating that this is not the case.

I perhaps could have said that I hold all religions in equal contempt without making the statement about being untrue. Though of course there is no reason to suppose any religion IS true.

I am quite happy for religious people to believe what they will. If only they would stop trying to get us to agree with them and act according to their wishes (often demands)

Runnybottom - I think it is more to do with applying your own set of standards - do you wish to offend people? Or do you wish to have a mature debate even if other people insult you?

Personally if people insult me I try very hard to rise above it, but there are times where it gets to the point where something has to be said without being insulting in return.

It is upto you.

Sorry... I didn't mean your particular insistance... I meant some folks insistance.

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the supposed "attack" on christians?
Seems that disagreeing with you makes you feel attacked.

I am a religious person Ongar and I for one minute do not expect you to do anything I want - or anyone else for that matter.

That means your statement about religious people trying to get you to agree with them and act according to their wishes is a sweeping generalisation and is not fair, probably to the majority of religious people. The exact number is unknown to both of us so in that respect you can hold your belief and I can hold mine. I just know that I am not the only religious person who does not try to impose their beliefs on other people.

To me it is more to do with the personality rather than any religion they hold which dictates how they make demands from other people.

Being deeply offended by someone saying that Christianity is untrue is unfortunate. And rather ridiculous I think.

Deeply offended? Really? You would let someone elses opinion on a religion offend you deeply? Your belief is your belief, and it should be string enough to weather the opinions of other people. It's not even an attack. Someone stating that something is untrue is quite mild.

Are you careful to always state that "you believe" something to be true, rather than stating that Jesus did this, or Christianity is this? Firstly, I cannot believe you do, and secondly, if you do, it's not much of a belief if you cannot hold for it being true is it?

I believe what I believe is TRUE. I do not think that it is my opinion. So I state it as fact. Because that is what I see it as, fact. Surely you believe Christianity to be fact? Not an opinion? If you don't see it as fact, then how much do you actually believe? At least have the courage of your convictions FGS! If you're going to build your life around a fictitious being, go all out!

Runny bottom, I suggest you read this thread from the beginning and count how many insults you can find in relation to the names used to describe Christianity.

At least try and be objective.

Good point pfft, its not very robust faith to be so easily challenged, is it?

Christians don't impose their beliefs on anyone. That's why we have religious freedom and allow Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims and Jews to practise their faiths as they please. However, we live in a culturally Christian country and the majority of us, whilst not strict observants, wish to continue with our Christian traditions.

I think the hostility and rudeness towards Christians on this forum is very illuminating. It will awaken Christians and strengthen their resolve to continue their traditions. The hostility towards Christianity is doing a great service to Christianity.

WHERE WHERE WHERE?
You keep banging on about it yet can't point it out! This is deeply irritating.

Faith means complete trust or confidence. This is what I have in my relationship with God.

Christians will talk about their belief because they are aware that others don't hold the same. They're being respectful.

Fruitysunshine, I have no wish to upset you or the many christians, muslims etc who want to just believe without imposing it on others.

Unfortunately a large number (as you say an unknown number, but they are the ones doing all the talking for your religion) of religious people AND organisations do wish to impose their beliefs on others. It is those I am responding to generally and to particular posters within this thread.

My level of tact and politeness depends on the situation. If I meet someone in the street on their way to church I will not even hint at my opinion and will genuinely hope they have a good service. If the same person knocks at my door and tells me that if I accept jesus I too could be a decent person then I will tell them what I think of that in no uncertain terms.

Pffftthemagicdragon.

You may think it is ridiculous for me to be offended - that is your right.

Again, the insults in your post about me personally are unjustified as you do not know me personally and are purposely trying to embroil me in an argument - why else would you post something so controversial?