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Original poster

to be cross with my elderly fil about the meaning of easter

585 replies

nickschick · 04/04/2010 21:18

Bit tongue in cheek really.

FIL was today bemoaning the fact that he couldnt go to tesco for his cigar supply as they were shut for Easter.

Its only Easter he said they could have had usual Sunday hours ,its not like Christmas or anything.....

ONLY EASTER?????? i SHOUTED - JESUS DIED ON A CROSS FOR US!!!! EASTER IS MORE SPECIAL THAN CHRISTMAS - YES EASTER IS IMPORTANT.

and that sais dh is why you should never discuss religion with a catholic especially not one who sat in a cold church for an hour and a half last night at the easter vigil.

OP posts:
Kaloki · 05/04/2010 14:09

Miggsie I agree totally. But why that day.

I think we should start a petition to move it to April the 1st to save us from idiots playing (bad) practical jokes at work, and, in the case of shop workers, save them from every customer trying the same lame April fools jokes. Who is with me?

gaelicsheep · 05/04/2010 14:10

Well let's see. All those pretty little village churches dotted around the countryside that people like to get married in. The marriage tradition itself (religious and civic). Our entire legal system. Need I go on?

claig · 05/04/2010 14:10

Kaloki,
"claig You wanna get technical, Paganism was here way before Chritianity, and my particular brand of Paganism originated in Britain. Why are my beliefs less valid?

I am living in a country which my family have lived in as far back as I can trace, in a country which has a long Pagan religion. Where should I go to be able to practise my beliefs equally as with a religion that originated in Israel?"

no one is stopping you practising your beliefs, no one is saying that they are not valid. Yes your religion, and other religions such as druidic faith, sun worship etc. existed on these islands before Christianity. But these religions are no longer the majority. You are free to worship as you want in this country, the same as any Hindu or Sikh can.

The difference is that Christians are the majority in the country and your beliefs are not held by the majority. Therefore you cannot expect to have a national holiday on one of your holy days.

Greensleeves · 05/04/2010 14:10

"We are very very lucky that we have hung onto the same culture for 1500 years."

Strange how we regard preserving one culture in aspic as praiseworthy, but disparage as backward/savage fundamentalist Islamic states who have actually done a better job of preserving their culture

and again the offensive and ignorant assumption that consumerism is the only alternative to Christianity. Atheism is not simply a hole where YOUR beliefs ought to be.

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 14:12

Claig you are essentially saying that my beliefs are less valid than yours though. And I do not get to practise mine equally with Christianity.

greensleeves Very good point.

RealityIsWalking100K · 05/04/2010 14:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

shockers · 05/04/2010 14:14

Pffft... you didn't just say it was untrue, you said her belief was wishy-washy because she used the word "believe".

Plastic footwear isn't a life choice... it's temporary.

fragola · 05/04/2010 14:18

I'm an atheist, but I feel that Easter and Christmas are part of the culture and tradition of UK and I think it's a real shame that people are willing to let that go so that large companies won't loose out on one day of profit.

For example I have a friend that works in a small conecession in a large department store which started opening on boxing day a few years ago. She doesn't have a choice of working, she has to. It means that she can no longer travel to see her family at Christmas. I'm sure a lot of people find themselves in this position and I think it's really sad.

gaelicsheep · 05/04/2010 14:18

I take it none of you do Father Christmas with your children then? Because he originates from a Christian saint you know. There's no getting away from it. Remove the centuries of influence from Christianity and pretty much everything disappears.

The message I'm getting from this thread is me, me, me. Almost nobody seems to care any more about the experience of living in a society that shares broadly similar values.

onagar · 05/04/2010 14:19

gaelicsheep, are you suggesting that christians invented marriage? I think you will find it is 5000 years old at least.

Of course that particular ceremony will be christian (though will have changed a lot over time anyway)

Personally I can't see the point in getting married in church unless you think you are getting god's blessing. Most of us don't think that.

Getting married in a pretty place is another matter, but we don't need to hang on to christianity for that.

gaelicsheep · 05/04/2010 14:21

If it wasn't for Christianity those pretty places wouldn't exist. That's the point. But perhaps we should just demolish all the historic churches and save some money? No doubt most people with their naval-gazing views will say yes to that as well.

claig · 05/04/2010 14:21

Greensleeves, I think our faith, where everyone is considered equal in the eyes of God etc. led to our being able to have secular ideas. Luther, through faith, challenged certain Catholic injustices. People like William Wilberforce, through faith, challenged slavery. Our faith based on principles of love, mercy, justice and equality led to our secular development. A faith such as the Mayan faith would not have led in the same direction. Our fundamentalism has been challenged and overturned because it was seen to be unjust and ridiculous and to not conform with the teachings of Christ.

Kaloki, I am not saying that your faith is less valid. I am saying that your faith is not shared by the majority, you can practise it how you like, but you cannot expect it to affect the majority.

Greensleeves · 05/04/2010 14:22

I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope there gaelicsheep. It's not about people not wanting to live in a society where we all share broadly the same values. It's about the fact that we don't all share the same values, and the rest of us don't want to have to pretend that we do, or have our own values dismissed as "consumerism" or cited as evidence of social collapse by reactionary histrionics

Beveridge · 05/04/2010 14:22

Interestingly, my understanding of Christianity in Scotland is that immediately after the Reformation in the 1560s, neither Easter nor Christmas were celebrated nationally by the Reformed Church of Scotland, the reason being that there was no foundation in the Bible for these points in the year to be treated as festivals.

In fact, Christmas only became a public holiday in Scotland in the late 1950s, before this people had to work and instead had New Year's Day off (and we still get the 2nd of Jan as a public holiday too - yay!).

Of course, those with strong Presbyterian beliefs today would agree that it's inappropriate to have shops open on Easter Sunday, but that would be because it's the Sabbath, not because it's Easter.

So, to claim that because this is a 'Christian' country, we all should observe major Christian festivals is a bit simplistic as even the term 'Christian' includes a broad spread of a denominations and beliefs.

And as many other posters have pointed out, there's not actually that many practising Christians so why don't those that want to observe a religious holiday, observe it and those that don't, don't .

onagar · 05/04/2010 14:23

Father Christmas, is a combination of many myths so that's a bit of a red herring. The gift giving isn't really christian even though I notice christians are happy to have that as well as their church service.

Also I personally am happy to give gifts without lying to children about their source. Never could see the point of that and it always causes them upset when they find out you lied.

shockers · 05/04/2010 14:23

The sun has come out. Does anyone fancy a walk outside celebrating the beauty all around. We could agree to differ on it's origins and just enjoy it.

gaelicsheep · 05/04/2010 14:24

I think this is why I ended up hating England much. You lot want to try living in the north west of Scotland. You can't buy anything on any Sunday over there. Remember the row about Sunday ferries to the Western Isles (did they even report that in England?)

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 14:25

Who says anything about a socierty without similar values? It is perfectly possible to have similar values without being Christian.

And although St Nick may be Christian, before St Nick there was a Pagan figure assoiciated with Yule who wore holly and ivy and symbolised the coming of Spring. (The Sun/Son is born at Yule)

shockers · 05/04/2010 14:26

gaelic... I'll come to you. I love it up there. Will I be needing my raincoat?

onagar · 05/04/2010 14:26

"If it wasn't for Christianity those pretty places wouldn't exist. That's the point. But perhaps we should just demolish all the historic churches and save some money? No doubt most people with their naval-gazing views will say yes to that as well."

You're really grasping at straws now. You think we can't have old and/or pretty buildings without practising Christianity?

Greensleeves · 05/04/2010 14:27

claig, it's monstrously disingenuous to suggest that equality and fairness and justice are eclusively the products of Christian ideology. They are, in fact, common sense - which is why atheists find it so baffling that Christians regard them as simply "godless" and attribute all kinds of crazy precepts to them. I believe Muslims are equally baffled by the Western Christian mythology that theirs is a savage and cruel religion by comparison - in its extreme forms Christianity is every bit as fascistic and bloodthirsty as any other belief system

citing Christian trailblazers for humanitarianism is a very limited and narrow route to take - there are good and bad people, corrupt and cruel people, altruistic and visionary people in EVERY culture. Christians do have an unattractive habit of assuming that they invented common human decency.

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 14:28

shockers Happily We've got some gorgeous countryside round here, and last night the stars were beautiful.

onagar · 05/04/2010 14:29

I'm with shockers! it's a bit gray and chilly here, but I do have a nice view if I go for a walk.

onagar · 05/04/2010 14:29

Though that reminds me of a quote which I always liked.

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too"

gaelicsheep · 05/04/2010 14:29

X posted with Beveridge there. Yes that's all true. My point is that I think it's important to have some common special day that everyone shares. Most people disagree for a wide variety of reasons. So let's just abolish Christmas and Easter altogether since it means b* all to anyone any more. You can all go to work when you want, go to shops when you want and never ever get any time off together as a family unless you book annual leave (assuming you're allowed to). Is that about right?