to be depressed that people need to be told/taught to read to their children

[clemette]

DS had his two year development check today and was delighted to get his bookstart pack. It is brilliant and I applaud the charity, but I did find the glossy booklet that came with it very depressing. Surely everyone knows that you should read to your children??

Yes, you're right Milly. But then again, for almost the entire time people have existed, they haven't needed to exist in a literate society. Children now, do.

A study comparing literate and illiterate adults from a similar background showed that the illiterates had great difficulty understanding that a word can be split into its component phonemes (eg., they didn't know what you meant if you asked them to say 'break' without the 'br'). Your whole understanding of words changes if you can conceptualize them as symbols on a page. This impacts on things like understanding that nonsense-words can be made up, understanding how to sound out words in another language.

I think listening to a story and understanding that it is being read out from visual symbols is quite important for developing a sense of how language can be structured by humans. It makes us more reflective. I don't know if it matters at what age you are read to, or learn to read, but with other (granted, more 'natural') processes like learning a language, the time at which you learn the language is very important. Take bilingualism: an 'early' bilingual who learns both languages as a baby or toddler, will actually use different parts of his/her brain to do so, than a 'late' bilingual.

Sorry if this sounds quite speculative, I'm trying not to overstate my case (which is easy to do): I am pretty thoroughly convinced that reading to children is important, but my research has to do with literacy and illiteracy in the past, and I know how difficult it is to 'prove' anything about the way the brain develops.

Oh - I should have said, Uta Frith (lady who also does autism research) is good on this; she's written a kind of layman's handbook on brain development and teaching, the name of which I forget but if you googled it you'd find it.

But you don't know there is a need. You don't know that parent volunteers are essential either. It is all simply speculation. It isn't even anecdotal; it is the poor relation of the anecdote - the repeated opinion of an acquaintance.

This whole thread is just a variation on a theme of what is the role of parents and what is the role of teachers, and how the two have become conflated in recent years.

The state has chosen what they think matters in education, and I will decide what I think it important in terms of the education of my child, and (as long as my child behaves, hands homework in, respects the school) it is my role to teach my child what I think it is important to know in life.

What the state wants me to do is irrelevant - I don't work for them.

No, granted, I don't know. It would be extremely difficult to 'prove' myself right here because there are so many variables. However, I do have some knowledge about how the brain works and what stimulates it, and I also have some sense of what happens when children are not read to. For me, that's enough.

Btw, I don't think this is a recent thing. Chaucer thought it was important to read to your children. If anything, it is a recent development to assume that teachers bear sole responsibility for education.

YABU

My parents didn't have English as their first language and we were very poor at this age. I didn't really know until I was quite a bit older- they must've been very ashamed, they hid it well (They couldn't read very well in their own language either)

LRD - my post wasn't in response to you. Sorry I am MNing from a broken down train with dodgy wifi so my posts are out of sync with the the speed of the thread.

Oh, sorry! My bad.

Hope your train moves soon milly - my idea of hell is being on a broken down train in a tunnel!

Absolutely right to say that I'm only speaking from my own experiences and those of the kids I work with but the school have developed their paired reading scheme based on an identified need locally - been running for a couple of years now.

I suppose for me, I see the ability to read as a key to so many other aspects of a childs life - DD spends so much time trawling the internet for info on her school projects, or her hobbies or her homework. The board games she plays require the ability to read etc and for me personally. I feel that I would have placed her at a disadvantage if I hadn't introduced her to books early and encouraged her reading skills. I see schools and parents as partners - whilst I assume some responsibility for her reading, i expect school to assume some responsibility for instilling good manners etc.

What amuses me in my very upmarket area where parents are obsessed with education and getting children into the "best" private schools is that so many of them don't have a single book in the house (maybe a cook book or two)

If they do read to their dcs it'll be the books the schools send home with them but reading for pleasure is simply not part of many family's lives, whatever their backgrounds.

Actually, bonsoir, I completely agree with you.

Ds1 had SALT when he was three and four - soon realised I was onto a loser getting him to differentiate between "Fffff" and "Th" when his keyworker came over to tell me she "Finks 'e 'ad a real nice day"

Her care was excellent. Her speech was not.

I've always enjoyed reading so fully expected to be one of those parents who reads to their children every night.

Instead I discovered that neither of my two boys had any interest in being read to. Ds1 paid no attention whatsoever and would wander off. Ds2 couldn't sit still for long enough to listen to even a single sentence. Both have turned out to be very good at reading and enjoy reading by themselves. They're still not keen on being read to.

Dd has always enjoyed listening to stories and then 'reading' (re-telling the story in her own words) her books to herself.

So much depends on the personality and interests of the individual child IME.

Bigmouth, far from a middle class bubble, I was raised on a sink estate with a mother who resented my reading. Also 12 years of teaching in comprehensives does expose you to many different families. As a result I know that the MAJORITY of parents can read, have books and choose not to. Again (I keep saying this but it seems to be missed) the booklet proves that this is an issue that crosses all backgrounds. The fact that it is an issue that demands universal intervention. Is what made me reflect that this a problem that goes beyond economic and ecucational constraints. The fact that some people have no justification beyond "it's boring" or "I can't be bothered" is what prompted my OP

You know, i don;t think most people do think it is boring

I just don't think it opccurs to them tbh

get home, have tea, put on TV, settle kids and collapse on sofa.

Actually we are fairly the same. Difference is that becuase I know bedtime reading is un-doable (complex sit) I make sure I read at other times, and go into school to read with the class. It is the only reading they do from a book all week (they are yr 4)

I also grew up on a sink estate Clemette and far from resenting my reading Mum really encouraged it, ahs me starting to read alone at 2 and helped at school / playgroup. The old teachers used to try and persuade her to train as a teacher but she was too shy really. It was a real nonus that stayed with me through school but am not sure school appreicated it as I was on a different level to the other kids entirely for reaidng / written work (made up for it in maths though)

Well there is a school of thought that TALKING with your children is a lot more important than reading.

Do Steiner parents not read TO their children? I knew that they didn't teach them to read but didn't know they didn't share books.

brassband - wouldn't you ideally do both? Eg. reading book and talking about it?

brassband - you are quite right, and I do actually know families who do huge amounts of reading to their children but actually engage in conversation with them very rarely indeed. And the children's language skills are not that hot!

i wasnt read to much as a child, BUT my dad always told me a story before bed, made up ones off the top of his head, i much prefered them, storys of penguins sledging on dustbin lids. my DD gets bored being read to, i start the page get a few sentences in and it gets thrown on the floor, she will however, her lay there and listen intently as i retell the storys my dad told me (with a bit of my own made up story as it was years ago and i cant fully remember his storys!) i can get more into telling my own story using hand movement and expression rather than reading from a page.

I love reading now and agree with the other poster saying DH calls me unsociable having my head stuck in a book, and the 2 hour long baths to read

oh dear, i went through a phase of trying to do invented stories with ds... on the third night, ds fixed me with a beady eye and said 'want a REAL story' and since then i've relied on the professionals.

i think the advice is useful, you can't know who will be good at reading with their children, and who will read through a story rapidamente and then cast it aside without talking about it with their children

the idea of meanstesting it is sickening, thank goodness that hasn't happened yet