People who have children should want to be with them

[LadyEarth]

Like any Mum I have my own personal preferences about how we should raise our children but I try not to impose those on other parents on the basis that we all find a different balance between keeping ourselves healthy and happy and doing the same for our children.(I know that comes across as hideously sanctimonious... maybe I am...) . What I loathe is selfish DINKY's who refuse to sacrifice any of their hedonistic lifestyle for the sake of their child. I am currently bombarded on facebook by one such parent whose baby is only weeks old. Each post revels in yet another night out, or 14 hours sleep (with earplugs). Baby is left with friends, grandparents or neighbours. Don't get me wrong, it's good for parents to check into their support networks and get some down time but it is also important for babies to have security and a primary care giver. A parent who views their child as a burden even with all this "me-time" won't be giving the child the important emotional regulation it needs, and if you dislike being around babies so much, get a dog!

I had a friend who did this with her first baby and at the time I judged her a bit

it was before I had my own children and I had no idea of the "hit-by-a-train" feeling that follows pregnancy and childbirth

my friend was single with her first baby, had exited an abusive relationship and was clearly struggling with her own identity, the baby's needs, the tiredness etc - as well as recovering from the trauma she had been through before the baby was born

she's now a happily attached mum of two lovely children, in a stable job and one of the most together people I know

people change and develop and adjust and go through different phases in their lives - you can't know what's really going on for someone else from reading facebook fgs

children and fools should never see anything half finished

If you have a problem with this particular couple, then speak to them about it. You don't benefit anyone by coming on here and steaming up about a whole "category" of people who you have decided exist on the basis of one person's FB comments.

I still want to know how many nights out etc we're talking about. How many Facebook boasts in, say, the last week? Exact figures.

sounds like your mate deserved a night out greeny, that sounds really tough

WEll said Amum.

OP funnily enough I can actually work out what emotional regulation means, however I think your pompous tone and evidence of doing a couple of modules of a child development course does not give you the right to judge someone based primarily on FB status updates.

YABU. Plus the idea of a primary carer came along with nuclear family during the industrial revolution. It's not a human need.

I think if they have the option of leavng the baby with caring, loving people while getting used to the idea they're parents they should. It can take a while to get over the shock. It might not be an option when this baby is older or if more are added.

I wish I could have done it. In fact I left dd with my doula for 6 hours when she was 4 weeks old, and the doula was pleasantly surprised I hadn't called at all during that time. Why would I, my entire existance needed to be AWAY from the baby.

There's a difference to being looked after by another person (an alternative primary carer) and lots of other people. Babies may look as if all they do feed/sleep/shit but internally they are developing at a phenomenal rate and a secure relationship is vital to that process (be it Mum, Dad, Grandparents, Nanny, whoever).

I know there is nothing I can do, at least nothing I would do. That's why I wanted to use the forum to let off steam.

are you jealous?
think it sounds lovely that this baby has been brought into a nice big extended family with loads of people ready to jump in and help mind the baby so the mum can have a night out. it is not all the mum's job and everything else is people doing her a favour you know! The babies in our family are all raised by loads of us, yes, they all have their parents and they live with us, but they could easily spend a couple of nights at grandparents, go on hol with aunty X as she has a random trip to somewhere nice etc.
I think you should get over yourself, bigstyle! you sound like a serious misery and your mate sounds like she is having a fun time and not doing so without making sure her baby is safe and secure being cared for by people she loves.

Where's everyones empathy? As a mother I find it hard to see a child treated not as well as it should be (IMO).

Just as in the thread about the crying baby in a wine bar and the sworn at toddler, I just feel for the child.

Where do we draw the line regarding 'minding our own business'? When the child is seriously neglected?

but this child is NOT neglected

Is the baby spending quality time with anyone or are they being parce the parcelled. If being parce the parcelled the YANBU if its just one or two people then YABU, what matters is that the babies needs are being met appropriately not necessarily by whom!!! You may be have a positive influence if you have the time by building up a strong positive relationship with said baby! also consider does the mum have PND?

it's just not brought up with a primary carer, which the OP considers ideal, when it's in fact not neccessarily the case

"by a primary carer"

op I think you are a tad jealous of your facebook pal,resenting her more relaxed attitude, take a tip from her book and chill,get yourself some earplugs, a babysitter and a dog, and you won't get so worried over trivial things.Sounds like you are uptight over nothing.Remenber,we all do things in adiffernet way,it would not do for us to all be the same,as my mother would say

PuppyMonkey, I'm not talking about going out once in a month!!! Even I'm not that harsh! Just checked 4x in the last 8 days (with photographic evidence of 2)

Who should the empathy be aimed at?

Plenty of societies have developed with children having more than one carer - a veritable revolving door of carers including nannies, parents, grandparents, aunts etc is not unusual in some cultures, with no obvious effects on the children concerned. So your statement that children need a single primary carer is rubbish and pretty ignorant.

Is the father of the baby on the scene? Is he going out as well? Are you angry with him?

lol at parce the parcelled

I've been at the sticky end of parenting, PND, on my own with a new born and a toddler and perhaps I am envious that she has more freedom than I had. I would have felt much happier if her "Thank God I've got some me-time" comments were balanced with "Look at my beautiful baby." Maybe my original post should have been to ask for help with how to deal with such a clash in values. It is possible Mum has PND and needs support, I have offered it, (She also has a large social network, close family, supportive husband, doula etc.). In the meantime I am sad for the baby which is affected by his parent's behaviour.

blah blah blah blah
ooooooh, maybe her poor neglected child will grow up to be an axe murderer and hack up your DC's, is that what you are worried about?

I think you need to decide whether you genuinely believe the child is being harmed - in which case you ought to speak to the couple directly and tell them why you are concerned. "Letting off steam" on a forum may make you feel better (or not...) but it doesn't do anything to improve the situation.

I don't personally think what you've said about the situation is that bad - maybe not what everyone would choose, but if the baby is fed and safe and loved by lots of family and friends then that's not the worst thing in the world - but if you think it's a very bad thing for them to be doing, and the child is coming to harm, then you have a responsibility to deal with it directly.

No-one in your friend's position is going to read a forum thread and suddenly think "Gosh, I need to rethink my parenting", so if you want something to change, this isn't the place to do it.

ImSoNotTelling My post is about the parents not specifically the mother (with the exception of the PND comment).

TheBossofMe The extended family is a more typical style of parenting across the world and very sucessful. However in most cultures the first 6 weeks of a child's life is spent with the mother (aka primary carer) and this provides the foundation relationship that the more community based caring can build on.

I would feel differently if this was happening in a few months time, it is the fact that the baby is so young that dismays me.

Ladyearth and what if the baby was premature and in NICU for those 6 weeks? That's communal care, almost none of it by a parent. Are you saying that all baby's who spend time in NICU or SCBU are being harmed because they aren't with a primary carer?

Yes, its an extreme example. But your reaction is extreme as well.

LadyEarth you're allowed to have an opinion on the way these parents are doing it and not to respect them for it.

I think it's very easy to leap on any post that includes a value judgement and to bully come down hard on the person but it's actually ok.

Neglect of a child can consist of being so unsettled in their care that there is no identifiable carer and no primary bond for that child. This can have an effect on the child's ability to bond and attach. It happens - lots of children out there do have attachment disorders.

I am not saying THIS child does; just that what is happening to this child CAN be part of a wider picture of neglect. Neglect can and does happen and emotional neglect is as real as physical. It's ok for a poster to be concerned about it and I don't think we should quite so vigorously leap on someone and accuse them of being jealous!!!!