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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

punishment at private school

186 replies

rawspice · 29/03/2010 11:31

AIBU to be cross because my dd was punished at her school in such a way that it left her with a blister and cut on her finger and she was understandably distressed?

The teacher had her sharpen pencils for 1 hour as a punishment for using rude language nearly 3 weeks after the incident. She's only 8 years old and maybe I'm overreacting....

I have spoken to the headmistress but she does not feel it is an unreasonale sanction and she claims they only made her do this for 30 minutes, but I cannot see how an 8 year old child can sharpen 36 pencil in 30 minutes - is this even possible????

I know that schools have to have rules but should punishments result in cuts or blisters?

Makes me feel like a basket case!

OP posts:
pigletmania · 29/03/2010 20:32

Boobs and willies are not swearing thought that it was the f and S or C words. It sounds a bit harsh for that.

mumbar · 29/03/2010 20:49

Lot's of children of 8 will push the boundaries, use rude language I don't think you can blame parents. My son knows what I'll allow but will test to see what others will let him get away with (he's 5) and sometimes this leads to being reprimanded. He doesn't do it agin!!!!

I think 3 weeks after the misdemenour is a long time to delay.

Think it's a good thing that she obviously felt bad and tried hard to sharpen well - unfortunate it ended in a blister but I'm pretty sure she'll get over this.

abride · 29/03/2010 20:54

I sharpen pencils when I go in to our local primary school to help out. I often end up with a little blister. It takes a day to heal. No biggy.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 29/03/2010 23:09

5Foot5 is right, Kneazle - if any of my children shouted 'You Arse' at one of their teachers, I would expect a serious punishment, not just a warning! And they'd be in big trouble at home too. Even ds3, who is doing his best to be the stroppiest teenager in Renfrewshire wouldn't dream of doing that!

Do you want your dc in a school where children just get a warning for shouting something like that in the teacher's face? Would you want to be a teacher if that sort of pretty aggressive behaviour was allowed towards you? I certainly wouldn't!

coralanne · 30/03/2010 06:39

When my DD was 11 and in year 7 at a very exclusive private school, for some reason decided to skip a lesson.

She loitered around in the library instead.

The librarian wouldn't know she wasn't supposed to be there as girls came and went all day.

Her punishment was to go to school in her uniform on a pupil free day and help the office staff all day.

She came home excited because she had a great day and from that day on became a favourite with the office staff.

2rebecca · 30/03/2010 08:15

If it has only just happened its too early to know if there will be a scar. Most cuts requiring a plaster are shallow and heal well. If it had required a trip to A&E and sutures that would have been a deep cut.
It's not the teachers fault she was careless and cut herself.

cory · 30/03/2010 09:24

I may be a hard woman, but I would expect a paper cut still to be visible after 7 days, without thinking of it as unacceptable or a serious injury. Can take weeks to heal, but isn't it just one of those things? If I was that precious about my children, I would never let them have an education at all: that kind of cut is a natural corrollary of being around books and paper ime. And an 8yo getting a blister from doing a bit of work doesn't strike me as terribly cruel and unnatural either. If this is considered unacceptable by a number of posters, how do they deal with bruises and grazed knees from falling over at PE or in the playground? My own 9yo has been covered in bruises and cuts ever since he learnt to walk and I am forever dealing out plasters: isn't that considered a normal part of childhood these days?

But I am still intrigued to know how the OPs dd managed to cut herself sharpening pencils. Given that she is 8, not 3, I would have expected some kind of detailed explanation here.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 30/03/2010 09:55

Me too, cory.

Kneazle · 30/03/2010 10:04

Whilst i was joking when i said shouting "you arse" I am serious that i do not think rude language of this kind should require punishment. I have worked in many schools and all that has ever happened is that children are asked not to say that word again. With most children that is enough.

What kind of punishment do you suggest? Eight year old children are inclined to be a bit silly sometimes. I think that saying a word like "boobs" is just a bit silly. Children do far worse things in school that do require more action. If you punish a child for saying something silly what are you going to do when they hit another child or a teacher ?

I don't think the private state thing is relevant.

I also think the cut thing is OTT a child could get a paper cut reading a book.

Fliight · 30/03/2010 10:30

'perhaps we adults don't like it, but it may help her in the future to deal with society as it's all about learning to conform to social norms'

'Think it's a good thing that she obviously felt bad and tried hard to sharpen well - unfortunate it ended in a blister but I'm pretty sure she'll get over this. '

'So what she cut herself on a sharpner, hardly a big lasceration is it! Kids cut hurt themselves all the time doing all manner of things. She will live, dont worry let that be a lesson to her! '

HOW DEPRESSING

I guess the last 30 odd years of child psychology have passed a lot of us by.

Kneazle · 30/03/2010 10:40

It is rather depressing. I cannot understand this reaction to be honest.

spybear · 30/03/2010 10:43

YABU, its not such an awful punishment.
3 wks after is a bit odd though.
just let teachers get on with it and stop questioning their every decision.

Fliight · 30/03/2010 10:47

Kneazle your posts on this have been great.

I think some people just never went against what they learned as children at school back in the 1970s and beyond. They assume it's 'how things are' and just go round and round in this continuum of nonsense punishments and nonsense rules, because it's 'what society is all about'.

No concept of having any power or any faith in their instinct, or their children's capacity for real learning, real understanding without top-down impositions forced on them.

Reminds me of John Patrick Norman McHennessy...'set off...on the road to learn'

(John Burningham)

Fliight · 30/03/2010 10:47

'just let teachers get on with it and stop questioning their every decision.'

Oh ok then. Everything will be fine!

Fliight · 30/03/2010 10:51

ici

cazzybabs · 30/03/2010 10:52

The 3 week thing is a bit odd ... but the whole issue of parents being offended by their children getting in trouble is very strange ...a school has rules,a child breaks them there needs to be a punishment...this is why teachers and paretns are complanning about behaviour of children .. the school wants a child to do something the child learns he/she can say no and get mummy in to sort it out...

sharpening pencils is hardly torture

Kneazle · 30/03/2010 11:10

Thanks Fliight likewise.

I have never found it necessary to "punish" a child either at home or school. They learn from consequenses and example. A quiet word in a childs ear is usually enough.

'just let teachers get on with it and stop questioning their every decision.'

I also don't think it is a good idea to teach children never to question if something is right or wrong just because a person in authority has told them to do it. However, I don't expect anyone other than Fliight will know what i mean

Fliight · 30/03/2010 11:20

Lol!

I'm sure there are lots of people who do, they're just not very apparent on this thread...

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 30/03/2010 11:24

No - because we are all dinosaurs, locked into our 1970's childhood experiences, and child psychology has passed us by.

I think if you honestly have found that a quiet word in a child's ear is usually enough, then you have been very lucy with your children. I have tried quiet words, leading by example, learning from consequences etc - and sometimes it worked. But sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes they do things that require an imposed consequence, and I am prepared to do that if neccessary - though I guess that will just prove to you that I am a bad mother who has raised bad children.

Also, do you honestly believe that teachers could keep discipline in schools without any sanctions open to them to deal with bad, dangerous or disruptive behaviour? Schools would be in pandemonium and no teaching would ever get done!

I also think it is a good thing for children to learn that sometimes bad behaviour earns a punishment. Rule breaking in the adult world often earns you far more than a quiet word in your ear, and I don't think it is a good idea to raise children to believe that they will never be punished, no matter what they do.

Kneazle · 30/03/2010 11:35

The best teachers that i know keep order without raising their voices or sending people to the head every five mins. They can keep control with a look or a phrase. I am not pretending that this is easy.

I think we are going to have to agree to differ here aren't we. However, I would never suggesst that you are a "bad mother" or that you have "bad children".

Fliight · 30/03/2010 11:44

Likewise...I often consider myself one though!
there is a lot to be said for those who are able to care for children without punishment or retribution. I have ideals but I usually don't meet them.

I just prefer not to toe the line, wrt the traditional line of inventing a consequence. Usually there is a perfectly good one waiting in the wings if you just think about it, and often it has nothing to do with pencils or the sharpening thereof. Surprisingly

Kneazle · 30/03/2010 11:49
Grin
Original poster
rawspice · 30/03/2010 12:01

Fliight - the book link is great

I think we strive to make our children independent thinkers and then complain when they are.

Also, has anyone's DC ever been punished by doing a 'menial' task for using the offending word 'willy'?????????

I can understand it if the child has already been warned not to use this word and then gets caught using it, but if this is the first time DC language has been brought into question then a warning should suffice should it not?

OP posts:
Kneazle · 30/03/2010 12:10

rawspice I totally agree. I find people often say :

"She has a mind of her own that one."

whilst shaking their head in shame

But thats a good thing isn't it ?

I have just bought the book.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 30/03/2010 12:27

I've volunteered in the dses Infant, Junior and Senior schools, and whilst I agree that a good teacher can generally keep order without raising their voice or imposing lots of punishments, I also believe that the stern look and quiet word work because the children know that they can, if neccessary, be backed up with further sanctions.

If all you can do is tell a child nicely to 'stop that please', and the child knows that that is all you can do, there will be plenty of children who will simply ignore the teacher's request, with a 'what are you going to do about it if I don't' attitude (or even actually saying that out loud).