My SIL has a filthy house and her children are always smelly

[OprahWinfrey]

Yes, I know I might get slaughtered on here. But here I go anyway.

SIL's children are always wearing dirty clothes and smell of stale food. Her house is absolutely filthy and smells. She is very overweight and her daughter is suffering from obesity now. (11) I feel quite sorry for my brother as he likes bringing them round to visit us. On saturday I took my niece and nephew (11,12) out and SIL sent them round with clothes that stank. I knew why people moved away from them while we were out. I found out that the kids hadn't had a wash for weeks (they said!!)

The kids love it round mine and have planned to come and stay during the easter hols. I am embarrassed to take them out as their appearance is appalling. Manners are non-existent. They swear at each other and are extremely disrespectful in public. One of them smelt of pee (I am not making this up!) Can I say something, nicely, to SIL.......... or AIBU?

I agree the mum sounds like she's struggling, which probably needs addressing but the DCs hygiene can be improved regardless of this. As people have said earlier in the thread, at 11 and 12, they should be able to keep themselves clean without their parent's intervention, so OP when they are staying, you can get them into the habit of regular bathing or showering. And maybe give them a bag into which they put their dirty clothes, and teach them how to decide something is dirty or clean.

I think the chidlren will be grateful for the intervention.

I was raised in a dirty house and I was dirty so I probably smelt. I was always the trampy one at school and I hated myself. The other chidlren would pick on us because of our trampy appearance and because we knew it was true it hurt even more.

It's all very well sayin the children can clean themselves but from my experience:

A - we were never taught how to wash ourselves.

B - Our mother would only allow us bath once a week and would only turn on the hot water for her.

C - She controlled the washing machine and on the occassions she would wash our clothes she wouldn't dry them properly so they would smell musty and horrid.

As an adult I am immaculate but I always eel dirty.

If this was an AIBU about small kids being stained and scruffy, then I would agree with BalloonSlayer wholeheartedly. My 2 are under 10 and they are always wonky, crumpled and stained (and lovely).

But these are 2 young people approaching their teens whose own auntie cannot bear the smell of them. That's not right.

I wonder if any of the people who are saying the 11 and 12 yr old should take responsibility for their own hygiene, have ever owned an 11/12 yr old boy ? My DS would never shower or change his underpants if it were up to him.

I have a ten-year old boy who is immaculate. His hair is naturally curly and never needs brushing and always looks lovely. He takes himself off into the bath every night, brushes his teeth, uses deodorant and will only wear freshly cleaned and laundered clothes

The downside is that his older and much dirtier sister insists that he is gay ...

Mumtalist

for you

Aw that's so sad, got upset just thinking about it and reading some people's experiences on here
I do think that at 11/12 most children should be starting to take care of themselves but then if they've never been taught properly then...
I don't have any idea how you would go about this, I just wanted to post and tell you I'm thinking of you and the children in this situation and to say that I'm really sorry
xxx

Buy them nice smellies and undies rather than chocolate for Easter. Make sure they shower and clean their teeth everyday while they stay with you. Good on all counts

Mine (DDs and DS alike) accepted the need for daily showers from about age 10. They all went through a class in school at that age with a teacher who was not a bit shy about telling children out loud that they needed to wash more frequently. She sent home a form letter at the beginning of the year telling parents that as she had to sit in a warm classroom all day with their stinky DCs, she was going to insist that all were introduced to the concept of daily soap and water and anti-perspirant/deodorant use. Thank you Ms. W, if you're here. The message came loud and clear from my side too. It is possible to make children do things they don't want to.

There is a child in my DD's class who is consistently filthy and smelly, with unbrushed hair and revolting clothes. The other children avoid her and she never gets asked to birthday parties etc. Fortunately the children don't tease or bully her (yet).

The other day I was sitting on a park bench at lunch time with my DD on my knee; the dinner lady was sitting next to me with this other little girl on her knee. We simultaneously noticed many huge lice crawling around in this little girl's hair.

I seized the opportunity to go straight to the headmistress to ask her to deal with this. I have since heard that she personally telephoned the mother of the little girl that day and asked her to deal with her child's personal hygiene.

You will only be doing your DNs a favour if you talk to your brother and SIL about their hygiene issues.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but if they come round for a day could you take them swimming?

They could have a good shower and hairwash afterwards

I think the cultural differences are probably relevant here. Asian cooking (I think) involves frying food which always gives off a smell that stick to your hair and clothes. So if the clothes are being dried in the kitchen it not going to help.

I think your SIL needs help to get motivated - she may be a little depressed too. Can you do a 'family intervention'? All turn up and help her with some spring cleaning? Maybe use an excuse that 'it's a cultural difference' etc?

Mumtalist - sorry to hear of your experience

On one of the days while they are round, I'll ask my niece and nephew to help me put the clothes into the wash and hoover and clean up (oh what fun!) Maybe they could help their mum out at home when they go back? If I remember correctly, my sisters and I at that age each had specific chores around the home. I remember being bin duty. Empty the bins, all of them from around the house. My big sis did a lot hoovering and making sure the living room at least was presentable at all times ahhhh the memories.

Tackling my brother or SIL makes me cringe. It can only go bad and I'd be so embarrassed. And then my mum will tell me off. She advises me to leave it alone and not to mention it. She believes it is a character thing. They surely see other homes and other children and therefore must have an understanding, so if they can see and not learn then they are incapable of being taught....? I can see her point, so I will tackle from bottom up. As some have mentioned on here. I'm feeling a lot more focused, have a plan of some sort....

I wish I could go round there with some black bin liners.

It is hard but I am pleading with you to do something for the children's sake. They WILL be bullied and left out; no question. It is possible at their age you can approach it through them directly but it will be a lot easier for them if their mother and/or father is involved.

Of course your SIL does not smell it, humans do adapt very quickly to smells as someone pointed out. On that basis you should be able to say something to her. You can do the...I know it is impossible for you to notice because you live with them but your children are really beginning to smell like teenagers! If you want a bit of help sorting them out so they fit in with their friends at school, you know using the current fave antiperspirant (I just hope for your sake not Lynx!) I know a bit about it because my friend had the same thing with her kids...

You obviously care I sure you can do this without upsetting her. Good luck.

If the kids are coming round in the holidays its the perfect time to teach them some personal hygeine.

Have them stay over and let them loose in the shower. Sit round the tv of an evening with them and your DCs and dry your hair, cut your toenails etc.

They are old enough to do it themselves but probably dont have a clue what to do.

Also kids of that age from the cleanest households can become spectactularly lazy about washing at that age.

Show them how to use a washing machine and do some basic cleaning.

At least they will have a chance of keeping their own rooms clean.

I know families like this. By no means are they always poor and vunerable. I know plenty of better off kids that turn up at school in dirty illfitting uniforms.

It does make me feel crap because I never had clothes that fit or could see out of my manky fringe. My feet would often poke out of my shoes (no kidding).

It has so much affect on self esteem.

You dont need to put your kids in designer clothes and make them obsess about appearance but they should be clean and have clothes that fit.

I had a huge stomp at my sis and brother in law a couple of years ago over the state of their house and how the children were being fed/clothed. Yes, she was hopping mad at the time, but has since told me that is exactly what she needed to get the family into gear to do things. I gave her storage solutions, the kids all got their own boxes to keep their treasured things in, took her to Ikea and paid for a lot of things. They have 4 DC and a dog and they just got swamped by the whole organisation of things.

Now, she is mentally in a better place so is BIL and the house is fantastic, kids are happier and look much better.

What I am saying is be pro active - if you see she is struggling help her to improve, help the children to have a routine about bathing and keeping their rooms clean and tidy. Once they know what to do and how to do it, they will be ok (i hope). Do go round with black bags - but also storage boxes and explain what you are doing and why.

for the childrens sake, please do it.

You're in a terrible possition. And those kids in an even worse place. They can wash themselves at that age, problem is that there parents have never tought them the importance of this.

Don't walk on by. Help them. Do something. Speak with your brother, speak with the kids in a nice, friendly non confrontational way. Don't speak badly about their mum. Just explain to them the importance of good hygiene. Let them have a shower at your place.

You (or another close family member) need to have an honest discussion about this with your SIL.
She sounds depressed- over eating, etc, isolating herself socially by watching lots of soaps, etc.
I think you need to have a sympathetic word and tell her that you are worried about her and the children.
If she did become a bit more motivated and perhaps found a part time job or some more productive hobbies, tidied up her house and looked after her children better, she would end up being far more satisfied.
I can't see what being from India has to do with lack of hygiene or manners. In my experience, Indians are v particular about cleanliness!

No loobylu, people were only commenting on her coming from India in the context of to what extent the family are expected to get involved. Extended family are perhaps less obligated to be involved in Anglo societies, for example, and have less lee-way. Also it also relevant because cultural and social isolation (not knowing anyone and not connecting to the culture your in) is a key factor in contributing to depression (as I know from first-hand experience).

Yes, the Malaysian contingent of my in-laws are certainly a lot less shy about sharing their opinions than the Anglo ones.

Oprah, is your SIL the sort of woman who happily comments on your life? I assume you don't have children so maybe you can't tell yet (I mean, a lot of people only get opinionated when children are around, IYSWIM) but do you get a sense that she accepts comment or criticism generally?

It is tricky. The soaps and the hidden food and the dirtiness all seem to paint a picture of someone who isn't coping.

And I do agree that teaching kids that age to look after their own hygiene isn't that straightforward. I know that's the age where a lot of girls get into using stinky perfumed deodorant but don't necessarily shower every day, put on makeup but don't wash their hair, etc. And the boys do the same stinky deodarant thing but it never overpowers the Feet smell. I think it's worth doing, but I can totally understand why they haven't done anything about it themselves yet.

I have a good friend who was never taught properly, and who claims to have a bit of a phobia about showering. She's 28 now, and her hygiene is fine, but in her early twenties she still didn't clean her teeth often enough (and she was a chainsmoker, blech), would shower once a week, her hair was always greasy and her clothes never washed. She'd spray the underarms of her tops with deodorant to cover the fact that they'd been worn several times. Once, she moved from one side of the country to the other by taking a 72 hour coach, and when I saw her three days after arriving she still hadn't showered.

What snapped her out of it was her partner laying down an ultimatum, and also agreeing to keep her company while she showered - just being in the room chatting to her helped. But this was an intelligent woman who held down employment and a relationship, and she smelt. She had just got used to it for so long, she had no idea the rest of us could tell.

I do agree it's probably a character thing to some extent - there are neat and tidy freaks like me and messy ones. It's just the way people are BUT it's not fair on the kids to live that.

I'm known for my tidiness and my friend did ask for my help and we had a couple of days of chucking out and trips up the tip. she was so pleased but it has got bad again. I think for some people once it gets to certain stage it just seems like an insurmountable task.

I would go round with the bin bags, Ikea catalogue and lots of sympathy!

I personally find it very sad that some posters think these kids should take on responsibility for 1) their own personal hygiene when they've never been taught how to look after themselves
2) the amount of posters who think preteens should take on responsibility for laundry and chores because their mother (and/or father, not sure about his role in all this) is not up to it for whatever reason.

The OP mentions she cringes when thinking of mentioning smells, state of house etc. to her brother and SIL but has no issue with the children (it looks like to me) being held responsible for hygiene?

Before someone picks up on this, of course kids should have chores, responsibilities etc, they shouldn't be running a household though cos someone else has dropped the ball.

A difficult one though.

Agree Oscy. Parents must be tackled first. The children can help but at 11 and 12 they shouldn't be the ones to lead a change.

Do we think the kids should be leading the charge? We're just saying that they're old enough for the OP to teach them herself and rely on them to keep it up (the showering, perhaps not the laundry).

Oscy, by age 11 I was bathing myself and had a laundry basket in my own room. I was responsible for washing my own clothes.

Now, my parents were great and taught me what to do (and nagged me when needed to make sure everything happened as it should). It needed adult support and guidance.

However, if my parents hadn't been able to help (for whatever reason), I would have been glad to have another caring adult showing me the ropes.

By all means tackle the parents - but I would hope that the OP doesn't delay dealing with her DNs very specific issues while waiting for the parents to get their act together. Especially when there are good chances to begin the process while the DNs stay with their aunt, ideally with the parents being given some warning about what the OP intends to do.