stopping my kids going to a Catholic Church

[jennyslinger]

I know religion is contentious so I'd like to say up front that I am a confirmed atheist and my DH is a confirmed catholic. This is not about the rights or wrongs of believing in god.

DH wants DS and DD (when she's 4yo) to go to our local Cathocis church to attend sunday school and get involved with other church activities.

I have read so much over the last few years about the child abuse cover-up in the Catholic Church. For this reason I have told DH and his family that the kids will not be going.

DH says I am fussing over nothing.

I asked DH he knew a nursery had covered up child abuse would he be happy with the kids going. He says this is not the same.

Am I being unreasonable?

daftpunk, you asked me to give you a yes/no answer regarding my opinion of homosexuals forcing their opinions on me. This is known as a logical fallacy, some questions cannot be answered with a yes/no answer. The famous example of this is 'Have you stopped beating your wife?' Google it if you don't understand.

and mrsblueskys, my kid doesn't belive in god. I let the school give him religious education,although I believe its a waste of good teaching time. When he was seven he came home and asked me if it was all like a fairy story. I said that many people believed it to be true, but me and dad didn't. So, he is happy enough with that. He does still believe in Santa though.

Falafel;

I don't know what part of the catholic church you belong to?....every catholic I know in RL thinks gay marriage and adoption is wrong.....and they don't want homosexuality discussed in our primary schools

i dont think its wrong

and if god does - then hes the wrong god for me quite frankly

Custardo..

I can't move...I am frozen with fear..

My cat has just brought in a frog and I am on my own....

Dp is infact Alf Garnett.

fecked off with the way this thread has gone tbh.

it went from a loony

"i'm not taking my kid to chuch cos all priests are paedos"

to DP V's the world....again

I didn't state my opinion on gay marriage. I'm not going to; it is irrelevant to the debate. I was just pointing out that other people's sins are none of your business.

I quote from the Catechism of the Catholic church:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Darling are there any decent non catholic schools where you live? If so send your kids there and tell DH that if he really wants to do the Cathloc thing then he can get up early on sundays and take them to Mass - chances are he'll be too lazy/ hung over etc and wont be arsed.
If your local non Catholic schools are as bad as the ones where i live in south london then you will be queing up for Communion before you can say Holy Mother of God!
I was born and raised as a Catholic but only came back to the church when I saw that if i wanted a decent education for my children I either had to move , earn about 4 times as more or go back to church... Perhaps I am a bit of a hypocrite but I am also a pragmatist.

My DS's school is wonderful the children are kind and gentle with one another, the parents are all v supportive and non judgemental open minded and liberal. Anyone who has any contact with the children either through the school or the church has a full CRDB check and aside from the priest all the people who do extra stuff such as sunday school, playgroups etc are parents.

Perhaps you should reexamine your views of the Catholic church. I'm afraid that a lot of your views have been infomed by the fact that England has a long tradition of animosity towards Catholics going back 100s of years - much of what my non cathloic friends say to me about the Catholic church would be considered racist if i was Jewish or Muslim....

There are bad pervy people in every walk of life not just the Catholic chruch.

Can I just ask....

Me and DP are getting married, but not in a church, does that mean Catholics won't view us as married?

We're actually getting married in a pub

Battykoda- if you are not Catholic it doesn't matter!

This thread is interesting

BattyKoda, all I know is I got married in Wandsworth registry office, and my MIL thinks I'm not properly wed. And I supppose that makes my kid illegitimate too. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone on here will put us right.

glastocat I dont know about the schools in ireland but in england the catholic schools use the re lessons to teach the kids about all different faiths in all different cultures, imo this can never be a waste of teaching time, it teaches understanding and diversity of how we are all different and believe different things, i hope you dont end up preaching to your dc your views in the way your mil preaches to you!

Thanks Glastocat. I understand now why my MIL-to-be was disapointed with our choice of venue.

Phew- just finished reading all this!

I am a Catholic, with a LOT of reservations about the institution that is The Catholic Church. I abhor the abuse and subsequent cover-ups, and all the corruption, which unfortunately seems to come with "power" in all walks of life- at one time the Catholic Church was powerful, hence the reason its leaders had the confidence to think they would get away with it, I guess. It does make me sick. And I hope now that the Catholic Church as an institution has lost a lot of its power and kudos, its leaders realise that such a thing will never be tolerated again.

I do pick and choose which elements of Catholicism I wish to accept. I see this from the other way round: Catholicism is the religion which most suits my systems of moral and spiritual belief. I don't follow the catechism dogmatically, and I'm surprised that, in the modern day, people are surprised that you can be both a member of a community and also a free-thinker.

My DH is not Catholic, and has no desire to be. We discussed our differences before we married and had kids, and it doesn't seem like a big deal- the kids are baptised and will attend Catholic School (where I have no more worry about their potential to be abused than I would at any other school) and I will take them to church until they decide that it either is or isn't for them- their choice, but if they never learn about faith, how can they see it as an option? I will be fine if they decide it is a load of rubbish- my own faith wavers radically! But I believe that at this stage of their lives they will get something out of the Catholic faith, even if it just the sense of community and a moral barometer. They do enjoy going to church atm (more than I do!) and they go to the children's liturgy- again, I have no more worries about them being there with 30 other kids and 3 adults- surely no less safe than the classroom?

I find it sad that people like the OP think I am a terrible person and -what was it- a child-abuser because I allow my kisd to go to church and hear a few stories from the bible, sing a few songs, and feel safe in the knowledge that there is someone looking out for them and that good will always triumph. I am confident that any lay-member of the church who might take the childrens' liturgy would be hard-pressed to find any opportunity to abuse my children among all the others present in the church at the same time. I am also confident that my children are confident enough to speak up about anyone anywhere who did anything they were uncomfortable with.

But hey, as someone who is catholic AND ginger, I'm pretty used to being jeered!

DP - you prob only referring to those people that belong to the unmentionable party led by Nick Griffin.

You're an embarrassment to catholicism and to christianity imo.

Jooly i applaud you! you have just described my life and sentiments exactly, my dc have left school now and one has chosen to continue her faith while the other chose not to be confirmed and to become an athesist, but these were the informed choices they could make because they had the experiences.
Well done for being so eloquent

Joolyjoolyjoo, I don't think the OP thinks you are a child abuser at all. I certainly don't. My problem is with the church as an institution, although as I have said I do have problems with Catholics who do not examine their conscience about the role of the Catholic church in the cover ups. And I have a dim view of the Catholics that knew it was going on, and turned a blind eye, and here in Ireland there were/are many like that. While children now may be confident and vocal enough to speak up, in the very recent past here the culture was such that this was definitely not the case.

Mrsblueskys, as I have already described, there is no need to worry about me preaching to my child. He asked my opinion once, and I told him that I don't believe in god. So far as he is concerned, most people do, but we don't, and beyond that he isn't in the least bit interested

I accept what you say Glastocat, about preaching to your ds, but i am curious as to the RE lessons in Ireland, do they really only teach the kids about catholicism?

glastocat- I also have a problem with the institution of the Catholic Church. However, I quite like the community of the Catholic church.

I do discuss other religions with the kids, and don't ever lead them to believe that one is "right" and the others "wrong"- no religion is 100% "right" for anyone, IMO. The Catholic faith is what I know, so they can begin their awareness of faith there, then move away or on from that as they see fit, with my (if not the Holy Father's!) blessing

Daftpunk do you go to an Opus Dei Church?

I find it terrible that so many people keep saying 'abuse happens everywhere' 'there are perverts in all places' as if this justifies what happened under the eye of the Catholic Church.

I've said it already and I'll say it again - there are very few organisations that have so actively covered up this level of abuse, silenced people and moved the abusers to new areas and allowing them to abuse again and yet still do nothing apart from moving them to another place. Very few organisation believe themselves so above the law.

The Vatican want people to believe that the knowledge of this abuse was small (it's very much looking as if it wasn't and the knowledge was widespread) and it looks like they are doing a good job.

Joolyjoolyjoo, you sound like a lot of my Catholic friends. I don't agree with your beliefs, but I will defend to the death your right to have them (even though I think they are wrong).

And mrsblueskys, even though my child's school is multinational, and not all children are catholic, so far anyway they have only taught them about catholicism. Which i am uncomfortable with, but as I have said before, I have little choice.

I must admit, if I thought the teachers were like daftpunk, I'd run a mile.

DP, only that I know my MIL can't use a computer to save her life, I would think you were her.

glastocat "I don't think the OP thinks you are a child abuser at all"

I do. I think that that is what the thread was supposed to be about. She said in her first few posts.

"DH nor his family will be there at all times to look over our kids."

"I'm just not willing to risk anything like this happening to my kids"

That is why I have been so enormously pissed off with this whole thread. I think its absolutely reasonable for the OP to not want her dcs to go to church. It is the way she has said that her children are at risk from lay Catholics because they are Catholic therefor they are abusers that has upset me. Even SGB thought she was being unreasonable.