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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask employer for childcare costs?

153 replies

starkadder · 17/03/2010 13:14

Just about to start a new job - part time. There's a conference I'd like to go to (would be good for my employers if I did) but I spent half the day every day looking after DS. DH works 8-2 so I start work when he gets in.

Anyway, I've suggested it to them but have said I'd need to pay out an extra 50quid/day to get a childminder for each day I'd be gone. I'd obviously be at the conference full time, so to speak, so they'd be getting more for their money in terms of salary anyway.

Now I am not sure if this is reasonable or not. I was thinking of it as a travel expense - just like the airline ticket/sandwich in the airport, etc. But AIBU? Has anyone else ever asked their employer for something like this?

OP posts:
Feelingoptimistic · 17/03/2010 21:57

I agree with pointydog. I need to do extra hours this week, for no extra pay, and I need to pay for childcare - so in effect I will be paying to work.
But that's just part of the deal, part of being a working parent.

pointydog · 17/03/2010 21:57

agreed that conference is a different issue but @ dig at public sector attitude.

pointydog · 17/03/2010 22:00

I think this will nearly always end up being a woman's problem and as such it will be scorned and people will be told to put up with it.

I am no loud banger of the feminist drum, but there is just no way that a large number of men would pay to go to work and get zero in return.

violethill · 17/03/2010 22:01

Totally agree about the public sector attitude dig. Nonsense.

pointydog · 17/03/2010 22:01

and elliot is probably spot on in assuming that many of the people saying 'suck it up' are not inconvenienced by being an extra £50 down in a month.

itsmeitsmeolord · 17/03/2010 22:07

why does it have to be part of the deal?

If i am asked to do something over and above my usual role I see no problem with expecting reasonable compensation to ensure I am not out of pocket.

What if op hd asked if she would be unreasonable to request reimbursement of costs incurred by attending a conference but hdn't specified what those expenes were?
I reckon most of you would have said YANBU.

How can we expect attitudes to change when we are perpetuating the mindset.

Quattrocento · 17/03/2010 22:07

Don't go all cat's-bum-faced at the mention of the public sector. I'm putting money on this childcare funding only happening in the public sector. AnneE - are you an MP?

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 22:09

I'm glad some more people have weighed in on "my side". Not that I want to take sides but I hope you know what I mean.

pointydog - that is exactly it - I felt like it was unfair for me to have to pay real money from my bank balance in order to go and work extra hours for them.

I am sad that so many women seem to think that it is career suicide to admit that I have child care responsibilities which are not easily - or freely - shifted. Why shouldn't this be considered by employers? Childcare, for me, is a one off expense caused directly by the need to travel - just like buying a sandwich in the airport - for which they would reimburse me. I'm not part time so I can just lie on the sofa scoffing marshmallows for 6 hours a day. I am part time because the rest of the time I do a different, unpaid, job. I accept that I made a choice to be part time - with the reason being that the hefty cut in salary would be partially made up for by not having to pay for child care.

Anyway, I now have a new issue which is that they have just told me that they want me to go to another meeting, in the U.S., in May - which coincides with a holiday I booked ages ago (before I signed the contract to start with them). My immediate reaction is to say - "well, I'd much rather not cancel the holiday, but how much do you need me at this meeting?" but after the responses on here I am not at all sure of myself any more....would it actually be more the done thing to immediately offer to cancel my holiday??

Of course, it goes without saying that this second meeting will also mean me digging up another 150quid for a childminder...I am going to be poorer for this job in quite a short time unless I give up on the whole work´life balance dream and agree to be full time...

OP posts:
pointydog · 17/03/2010 22:11

Maybe childcare funding does only happen in the public sector. I wouldn't know. I didn't work in teh public sector when I worked part time so my 'mentality' came purely from the injustice of it. But bringing it up in a sneery tone is so bloody boring.

EdgeofReason · 17/03/2010 22:12

Agree with you itsmeitsmeolord - reason for costs is irrelevant but our expenses policy only covers certain things so would need to fit in with that - ie extra hours very legit ( no not an MP a banker - even worse )

Need to stop excusing ourselves as mothers - i'm working on the basis that ask for forgiveness not permission - and just assume what i do is right - lucky to be in senior job but still think it's about attitude

pointydog · 17/03/2010 22:13

That's part of the irony. You can often claim for quite a nice lunch and evening meal (when it's no hardship to pack a few cheese and crackers) but not for extra childcare when you can find no alternative.

violethill · 17/03/2010 22:14

Pointydog - I was one of the people saying 'suck it up' and I was certainly inconvenienced at my childcare expenses eating up a huge part of my income for quite a long time, and then for a couple of years, actually costing more per month than my take-home pay. It really pisses me off that some people think people who pay for childcare must be rolling in it. I paid for childcare after dc1 because we could not afford to live on one income - yes, that's right live. Not have holidays, or shopping sprees, but keep a roof over our heads. The childcare cost a lot, but we needed what was left over each month. By the time I had more children, I could have afforded not to work, but I did not want to give up my hard earned profession - hence I worked for a couple of years with two children in nursery and one at school, and lost money every month. The long term gain is that I now earn good money, and my children are old enough not to need childcare. But believe me, not everyone who pays for childcare is loaded. Far from it. I think people who use relatives for free childminding, or are able to work shifts around their partner have NO idea of what the real world is like!

EdgeofReason · 17/03/2010 22:15

Say straight away about holiday (they should have asked about this in advance so they'd be prepared) and still take it. You work to live not live to work- sounds like you've lost your confidence but don't forget they gave you the job so in a 'buyers' market you must be good,

Most employers will appreciate your confidence and certainty and in a year wont remember your hol/ none hol but you will..

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 22:18

Violet - I don't want to get into an argument - but the working shifts around my partner thing - we've both sacrificed a fair amount for that, so I think it's rather unfair to assume that we have it so much easier.

We all make choices based on our personal situations, beliefs and convictions and we might as well not get too arsey with each other about that, I suppose.

Childcare is always, always going to be difficult and there is no perfect solution - but my point was, if the additional travel they want me to do means I have additional costs, shouldn't those be paid? Otherwise, seriously, if they asked me to travel too often, I'd have to either go full time or quite. That doesn't seem right.

OP posts:
pointydog · 17/03/2010 22:19

happy to see you, edge. A very private sector worker . I know a fabulous bank big wig who is very honest and direct about these things, is extremely highly thought of and who also does some mentor type stuff for female staff with children and any issues that may throw up that men are unlikely to face.

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 22:19

(quit - not "quite")

OP posts:
Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 22:19

thanks edge

I am quite good

OP posts:
fallon8 · 17/03/2010 22:21

Are the members of staff who dont have children going to get time in lieu too?

stealthsquiggle · 17/03/2010 22:22

OP - if you don't mind my asking, what sector do you work in? I work 4 days a week in a very male-dominated industry where flexible working is far from the norm.

I work 4 days a week and if I end up working on what should be my day 'off' as I often do, I either:

  • swap for another day within a week (if DD's nursery can swap days)

or

  • accumulate TOIL. I am very lucky in that if I book DD out of nursery with a month's notice I get 80% of fees back. I have however made it entirely clear that this still costs me money (the 20%) and I will cash in that favour sometime.

I have had lovely managers offer to pay for extra childcare when they have to (in fact, one, who would have had to go to a meeting himself if I couldn't do it, offered to babysit for me himself ) - the last time my DM had in fact covered for me (again) so manager told me to take my parents out to lunch and claim it on expenses instead.

However - it has to be said that all of the above is a lot easier once you have established yourself in a job. Interestingly, the only person I know who joined on a flexible working contract is a man who negotiated lower pay for extra holidays so that he could take every school holiday off because his wife absolutely can't.

pointydog · 17/03/2010 22:22

I think that's a separate issue, though, violet. (And I had a similar experience to you.)I am talking about extra childcare costs rather than the advantages of free childcare.

stealthsquiggle · 17/03/2010 22:23

fallon8 - if they are part-time workers and working significantly beyond their contracted hours, why not? Ours would.

blueshoes · 17/03/2010 22:24

Starkadder, did you know that your job would require overseas travel before you took it on?

I don't think you can count the conference, since that was your suggestion. But an overseas meeting in May seems reasonable as it is once in many months.

You should feel free to mention your pre-booked holiday. Although as a rule of thumb, if you negotiated hard on holidays, it is also wise to mention any pre-booked holiday you have to take in the course of the year at the outset.

EdgeofReason · 17/03/2010 22:24

Would talk to them about number of hours a month you work then ask about how they want to divide that up - so if it's over 2 long trips then you can plan the childcare/ fund it. This feels like a positive discussion about 'how do you want to use my time you pay for' rather than can I have...

Then if the reply is - well I thought you'd do extra you could just stay silent and let them fill the obvious gap...

pointydog · 17/03/2010 22:25

fallon, why wouldn't they? If there is a toil policy everyone gets it

violethill · 17/03/2010 22:25

starkadder - I realise that everyone makes their own decisions, and i am not getting into an arugment. It's just an observation really. i do think that generally, people who don't pay childcare as a matter of course, don't appreciate that actually it's a necessary expense incurred by many people. No one likes having to pay it; everyone would love to get to keep all the money they earn (oooh I'd love to not get hundreds taken off every month for tax, national insurance etc!)

But actually, the thing I found most helpful was looking at it like this. I happily pay a mortgage to live in a nice house. I pay for nice food, holidays, nice clothes. My children are far more precious than those things, so why wouldn't I want to pay good money to know they are properly looked after to enable me to work in the profession I trained for?