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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask employer for childcare costs?

153 replies

starkadder · 17/03/2010 13:14

Just about to start a new job - part time. There's a conference I'd like to go to (would be good for my employers if I did) but I spent half the day every day looking after DS. DH works 8-2 so I start work when he gets in.

Anyway, I've suggested it to them but have said I'd need to pay out an extra 50quid/day to get a childminder for each day I'd be gone. I'd obviously be at the conference full time, so to speak, so they'd be getting more for their money in terms of salary anyway.

Now I am not sure if this is reasonable or not. I was thinking of it as a travel expense - just like the airline ticket/sandwich in the airport, etc. But AIBU? Has anyone else ever asked their employer for something like this?

OP posts:
Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 14:51

Thanks CMOT. That's the key thing here - that I am pt. I wouldn't be asking them for babysitting costs if I was ft.

If I put it like this, does it sound less unreasonable..? -

"My employer wants me to go to a conference. I work part time and want to ask them for additional pay to cover the additional hours (the conference will be full time). AIBU?"

I am finding this all quite interesting...apart from the fact it is about ME and I may have just messed everything up for myself in my new job - but it is interesting that the word "childcare" seems to be so forbidden. I don't live in the UK and have not worked there for a few years and I didn't realise that this was the attitude. I live in Spain, where family is such a big deal - e.g. it is a legal right to take paid time off work to look after sick family members (husband/wife/children/parents). Anyway, this is a slight digression...

OP posts:
theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2010 14:52

I'm sure it'll be fine - if they seem surprised or pissed off you can always just say you quite understand but your previous employers had a different policy or summat.

Is your name from Cold Comfort Farm? That's one of my favourite books! We obviously have similar tastes . I thought about using AuntAdaDoom as my next name change.

dixiechick1975 · 17/03/2010 14:53

£50 seems steep for a childminder 8-2. DD's nursery is £35 a day but I am in the north.

I work part time and if I work on a day off eg to attend a training course etc then I ask for time in lieu. So yes I have to pay extra childcare out of pocket but have time 'banked' if i need to take DD or myself to an apt etc.

I've worked here 8 years and wouldn't dream of asking for payment re childcare. I find the less I say to work re childcare the better.

Strix · 17/03/2010 14:56

I think you will do more to establish yourself as greedy and unreasonable than you have chances of having the request approved. So I don't believe it's true to say no harm in asking.

I would jump for joy if childcare was reimbursible from my employer... or even tax deductible.

But, shildcare is regarded by both employers and the IR as a cost unrelated to employment.

Whilst I see your logic (and even agree to some extent) I do not think it would be wise for you to ask.

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 14:58

@theyoungvisiter of course it is. Or Sukebind would be a nice username

dixiechick - not sure exactly how much it would be but it would have to be 7-230 (travel time for DH) and also not a nursery, a one off childminder coming to our house. DS isn't in nursery because of the PT working arrangement we have - which is normally fab but, for cases like this, not v flexible.

Maybe they'll suggest giving me time off in lieu instead, which I guess might be OK and worth it. I didn't want to suggest that as I already made a great hoohaa about number of days hol in the contract (the one thing I negotiated hard on) so I don't want them tothink (er, realise) that I am v keen on time off...

OP posts:
sapphire87 · 17/03/2010 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morningpaper · 17/03/2010 15:00

Get your DH to take a day's annual leave

I do this all the time

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 15:03

MP - he can't, he's a teacher.

Sapphire - thank you!! That's the thing . I want to go, for them - genuinely think it is in their interests - but also want it to not be a crap deal for me. I didn't think it was too U. I do get on with them well -negotiations for contract have taken several months (!) so I know them reasonably well. Hmm. We'll see..

OP posts:
morningpaper · 17/03/2010 15:04

I was under the impression that if they pay childcare then it is a tax-deductible benefit anyway

(I wonder if this is the case?)

Strix · 17/03/2010 15:04

ASk your DH to go to his employer and ask them to cover the childcare if they want him to come to work. If your DH looks at you like that's not a good idea, then you have a good guage for what your new employers are going to think of the request.

Have they actually asked you to attend the conference or is this something you are proposing?

At my DH's work, one of the guys wives persuaded him to make a similar request. They all now think he is totally unreasonable and laugh at him behind his back.

Your job has not even started. Is it too late for them to pull the plug and hire someone else?

NoahAndTheWhale · 17/03/2010 15:05

I see that as your DH is a teacher it isn't as simple as him taking a day's annual leave. I can imagine it wouldn't give a great impression of you to the company though.

Am trying to remember what I used to do when I worked (was part time) and had to work on a non usual day - I think I either asked childminders if they could be flexible (which they usually could be) or DH took a day's leave. Don't think I ever had to pay more childcare, although if it had I would just have paid it myself I think.

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 15:11

stric - that isn't the situation though, is it? I'm not asking for childcare in order to go to work for my normal job. I am asking for help to cover the additional time I'd be putting in during non-working hours. I think your post is a little strange, actually - why would my husband's employers be the touchstone? Anyway, as I said, he's a teacher.

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StillSquiffy · 17/03/2010 15:23

Assuming your name is not Lola and you are not a showgirl, I would say that if I were your employer and before first week of employment was out you had:

  1. asked for childcare costs to be paid
  2. asked to get time off in lieu for attending a conference that you yourself have asked to go to
  3. kicked up a stink about holiday package before accepting job,

...then I would would be seriously wondering if your heart were in your job or your wallet. And I say that as someone who personally fights hard for recognition and promotion of women in the workplace.

theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2010 15:23

my employer gives me childcare vouchers (sadly NOT to the value of half my childcare - I wish! ) and that's not a taxable benefit.

I don't think starkadder is being unreasonable at all in that she's not being paid to attend the conference, so she's losing money in order to work extra hours.

It's just not something I would personally do in a new job, especially not for a discretionary conference. But I don't think it's utterly outrageous to request either pay, or childcare costs.

Just smile and don't look grumpy if they refuse

Strix · 17/03/2010 15:27

Why shouldn't your husband ask his employer rather than you asking yours? (assuming they are his kids too)

This guy at my DH's work had been asked to travel and that is why he wanted childcare paid for. So, actually not within his usual working hours either.

theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2010 15:29

also squiffy, I think your last point is outrageously unfair!

Fighting hard for a good package before accepting a post is all part of the game - it shows you have a sense of your own worth and know what you're worth to them.

Negotiating a bit shows your employer that they've picked a good, sought-after candidate who clearly isn't unattractively desperate. Meekly saying "yes yes of course I'll work for peanuts and sleep under my desk" doesn't give a great impression either.

As for wondering whether your heart is in your wallet - is that not after all why we all work? Any employer who thinks that you are just doing it for love of getting out of bed on Monday mornings is delusional.

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 15:30

Squiffy - I bargained hard on holidays because I care about them. And because I had lots with previous job; didn't want to lose that. I don't see what's wrong with that. Do we all have to pretend that we love work so much that we don't want time off?? I do like my job, and I do want the best for my employer - but I also want a reasonable life for myself. What's wrong with that?! I am getting more and more dismayed at the attitudes here; I am clearly out of touch

TYV Thanks

OP posts:
theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2010 15:32

By Strix Wed 17-Mar-10 15:27:24
Why shouldn't your husband ask his employer rather than you asking yours? (assuming they are his kids too)

Because her husband isn't working unpaid overtime! If he was the one doing extra hours for no pay and having to shell out for childcare as a consequence. then perhaps he could ask too.

I think people are being v unfair to Starkadder.

She is working extra hours UNPAID. Given that she's putting in her time for free, I don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility that her employer would offer to pay for expenses so she doesn't lose out, or compensate her in some other way like time off in lieu.

I wouldn't personally have asked for childcare in her shoes either - but trying to equate it to her husband asking for childcare for work he's being paid to do is a totally false comparison.

Jammyrella · 17/03/2010 15:34

Sorry, haven't got time to read all of this but I work part time and have similar situations sometimes.

My work (and this may not be the same everywhere of course) are happy to pay me fo extra hours if I need to pay for extra childcare. They have done this both in cases where they have asked me to work different hours and once when I have asked to go to a conference. They cannot pay for the childcare directly though. It was suggested but not only would it have been tricky to arrange, I would have had to pay tax on it!

So I think YANBU to ask for extra pay for extra hours, YAB silly to work the hours for free and claim for the childcare as you will have to pay tax on it, and YABU if you ask for extra pay AND to claim for the childcare.

Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 15:38

Thanks again TYV! You are bringing tears to my eyes Feel like I have a friend on MN Although maybe you are sticking up for me because of our shared love of Stella Gibbons

Jammeryrella - this is really helpful - you have put it very clearly. I should have posted here before I emailed them..! I have now asked for extra pay for extra hours instead, which would actually more than cover the childcare.

OP posts:
Original poster
starkadder · 17/03/2010 15:39

What I am definitely BU about though, is that I am supposed to be working now. So I had better go and do some.

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MisSalLaneous · 17/03/2010 15:39

Well, it's done now. If I were in your shoes, I'd keep a low profile (demand wise) for some time, work my arse off and hope they forget all about it.

When they give you the money (or discuss it), I'd look mortified - well, I would be, actually - and mention that you've since found out it's not usual practice here, and that you hope you didn't cause offence.

Be careful though, it's a fine line between being proactive and seen a pushy / grabby when people don't know you.

DrDoobs · 17/03/2010 15:43

I think it's reasonable - I've asked my employers to pay extra childcare before when I have gone in on my non-working days and they were happy to do so.

In practice though it didn't work out - there are some tax issues about paying childcare costs apparently as it's a payment in kind (though don't ask me for specifics as not an accountant). So getting the full day salary would probably be better - that what my work was going to do but in the end I couldn't be bothered with the hassle for a mornings nursery fees.

DrDoobs · 17/03/2010 15:44

Doh - had missed that someone else had already mentioned the tax issue.

theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2010 15:46

Indeed Starkadder - if your nickname was DaVinciDan or FlowersintheArctic or something I didn't approve of in literary terms I would have thrown you to the wolves

Ok, seriously, I wouldn't have done it (partly because I am a wuss and crap at negotiating) but I don't think it's career suicide or betraying the sisterhood or any of the more hysterical posts on here.

It does depend on the sector - public sector are more tolerant I think, though less likely to be able to use discretion. Some parts of private sector would probably throw up their hands at the mere mention of children at all.

Anyhoo as MisSal says, it's done, no point in stressing, I'd just smile and be gracious whatever the outcome, and be very, very nice if it goes your way