to ask employer for childcare costs?

[starkadder]

Just about to start a new job - part time. There's a conference I'd like to go to (would be good for my employers if I did) but I spent half the day every day looking after DS. DH works 8-2 so I start work when he gets in.

Anyway, I've suggested it to them but have said I'd need to pay out an extra 50quid/day to get a childminder for each day I'd be gone. I'd obviously be at the conference full time, so to speak, so they'd be getting more for their money in terms of salary anyway.

Now I am not sure if this is reasonable or not. I was thinking of it as a travel expense - just like the airline ticket/sandwich in the airport, etc. But AIBU? Has anyone else ever asked their employer for something like this?

Just to be clear, I absolutely think you should ask to be paid for the extra hours but I personally wouldn't ask for the childcare. Although I'd be interested to know how you get on

Hi everyone - thanks - I logged off to get on with some actual work .

It is so interesting - I felt like it would be a bad idea to ask for the extra hours (because I don't want to be jobsworthy - in principle I am quite happy to be flexible and put in a few extra hours when necessary, and obviously you can't stick rigidly to your part time schedule when at a conference).

The truth of the matter was, I was prepared to do extra hours and whatever but just didn't want to have to pay from my own pocket for a childminder whom I wouldn't normally need.

It's now clear to me that mentioning childcare was probably a big no-no - and also, the fact that childcare is seen as a taxable benefit makes it very clear that it is not a normal travel expense!! That said, I think it IS a travel expense when you're dealing with a pt employee who only requires additional childcare when he/she has to travel for the company. Perhaps I should be campaigning for that on a national level, haha!

Anyway, they didn't seem TOO pissed off about it, although they have not yet replied to my second email (suggesting that they pay me for the extra hours and that I get my own childcare) so we will see what happens...I will keep you all posted.

S

PS tyv I might change my name to "Shopaholic Gets Flamed"

OK - well I couldn't stand the tension any more so I called them and it seems to be settled that they want me to go and I will get the time off in lieu..

not ideal.:! But not unfair either. And they didn't seem too pissed off with me.

phew...

sorry, they are YOUR, kids, You pay for them,what about non kid workers with pets, do they get kennel fees? or workers with elderly dependants, do they get cash aid for them? If the answer is yes, you can try it on, if not you fork out.if I were your new employer,alarm bells would be ringing and you may find yourself sidelined in future.

Comparing childcare to kennel fees is bollocks.

I work away fairly often, I hve always asked for extra pay to cover extra childcare. It hasn't caused an issue for me.
As others have said, there are tax implications for childcare being paid.

I have no idea why such a request has caused outrage here. We pontificate until the cows come home on here about how employers should recognise issues with childcare including the costs.

If you think it's important to go to enable you to do the job, then I would ask to be paid for that day. If the employer also believes it's essential, they will pay you for a day's work. If they don't feel it is, they won't.

I definitely would NOT ask for childcare costs - they'll think you're taking the piss and may even wonder what planet you're on!

itsmeitsmeolord, the problem I have with that argument is that we can't have it both ways. We like the demand equal rights, but this goes against that imo.

Everyone should be treated equally, whether you're responsible for children, parents, or the dog for that matter (some people do actually see them as a normal part of the family). You decide what you want in your life, and you are responsible for their "upkeep". You are paid a salary, which should be for the job, nothing else. Not less if you're a woman, but equally, not more (and covering childcare is in effect more) if you have children.

Oh, and starkadder, glad everything worked out ok for you.

I think it depends. When I've had to ask my mum to travel & stay with us because I was going to be away, I've paid her petrol money & for the cat to go into the cattery etc, but never claimed it back from work. However, when we the employer have asked someone to do something that has meant additional childcare costs for them, we have reimbursed it. But that is probably the exception.

If they come back and say 'no can do', I think you will just have to suck it up and go, covering the extra costs yourself. But of course you should get paid, or TOIL, for the extra hours. Even though you are going primarily for their benefit, you will also get something out of it, so it is not solely for them.

I don't think you'll ruin the relationship - as long as, if they reject your request, you don't throw a hissy fit & refuse to go!

Thanks itsme..! I have been really taken aback as well...

itsme - explain why you think paying childcare costs is the employers responsibility? It's a really strange argument! It's not the employers choice to have three, four, however many children, or indeed none!

This is a totally different argument from flexible working rights etc, because if you work flexibly, or cut down and do part time, you are still only expecting the employer to pay you for the job, not to pay for your children to be cared for! Ditto with making childcare tax deductible - that should be the case for everyone using registered childcare because it's a direct expense incurred through working. But expecting anyone else to pay the costs themselves is having a laugh!

The key thing I noticed about the OP is that she doesn't normally pay childcare because she works her hours around her DH and therefore the thought of forking out a day's childcare is a rarity. If you aren't used to paying it, it seems a shock, but that's the reality for many working parents - £50 per child per day! And yes, you just have to suck it up!!

Violet, I don't think anyone is saying it's the employers responsibility - just that it would be a nice gesture not to want your employee to be out of pocket due to working extra hours unpaid.

They don't have to reimburse, and they wouldn't be at all unreasonable to refuse, but that doesn't mean it's madness to think they might want to compensate you for working for free.

I think there is an analogy to be drawn with commuting. It's an employee's responsibility to pay for their commute, and it's the employee's choice whether they want to live in the back of beyond and consequently pay through the nose. But if the employee goes on an overseas business trip then the employer normally funds the travel door to door, no matter whether you live next door to the office, or in Little Wittering on Sea.

Yes, you could argue that that is unfair to employees who chose to live close to the office, and that everyone should be reimbursed only a set cost, and I'm sure some employers probably do that, but that's not normally how it works because they recognise that you are going above your normal duties in flying abroad.

I'm not saying it's the employers responsibility.
I have to go to Grmany for a meeting next week, I will need to have extended childcare to cover that for various reasons, my employer needs me to go, it's over and above my normal working hours, it's not unreasonable to ask for them to recognise that and assist.

I am doing them a favour, they do me one in return. Plenty of companies do this.

Also, Violet - yes, plenty of parents do pay childcare costs - I don't - because I work part time. I.e. I get paid half. That's why forking out for childcare is a shock for me. My salary is half what it would be if I worked full time.

I think there is also a difference between working ft and working pt in that they expect you to have your childcare sorted if you work ft but if you have to work hours you don't normally then they might expect it would be more of an issue.

I dropped my DC at my parents' house a few months ago to attend a residential course early the following morning. As I arrived, I got a text telling me the course had been cancelled because of the snow. I claimed for the petrol because I'd already done the driving but I only claimed for the portion that was driving from my house to the residential centre and back again because that's all I have to do for work. The fact that I have to drive my DC to my parents when I stay overnight is neither here nor there as far as my employer is concerned.

The other thing I think that makes me uncomfortable about the OP is that it was her idea to attend the conference in the first place - her employers didn't ask her to go. Now it may well be great networking but chances are that if her employers aren't savvy enough to have sent her on it in the first place, they may not quite get the networking aspect.

I think if I were the OP's boss right now I would be feeling a leeetle bit wary that I'd employed a bit of a prima donna. But maybe the OP does a fabulously specialised role where it's really difficult to find someone and so can get away with it

But you are fortunate in not having to pay half childcare costs because you work half time starkadder. That's what I meant. Many working parents have to pay for childcare for every minute that they start their commute to work until they pick their children up - whether they work two days a week or five days. Not many people have a partner who does short hours, 8 til 2, and can then fit their job around his.

You are very fortunate if the only childcare you have to pay is for one-off occasional conferences, that's the point I was making. I would just pay up and count my blessings!

I am fabulously specialised, LadyBiscuit They really want me to go. In fact, it was a bit strange, after I suggested it they took it up so quickly that they were kind of acting like it was their idea in the first place.

The thing is, I was trying to be as reasonable as possible. Paying me for the extra hours would actually work out quite a lot more than the childcare cost. I thought that was unfair on them. Hence requesting childcare reimbursement.

Anyway, I've now agreed to go and will take the time of in lieu instead...

My employers didn't pay for any extra childcare costs I had.

I thought it very unfair. I worked part time then and didn't mind putting in the extra hours at all, but did mind my having to pay to work.

DOn't think you can avoid it.

I work part-time. If I incur additional childcare costs becaue I'm needed for hours I don't normally work and I can't find a free "sitter", ie. DH is not able to cover, work is happy to reimburse me my additional costs. It is fairly pricey too - as if I have to ask my Nanny to work on a day that I don't usually need her, I will often charge them at least a half day childcare, and sometimes a whole day, depending on how long they need me.

Work would tend to credit me the hours to take later, rather than pay OT. I think that meeting my childcare costs is a minimum.

I work part-time because I have something else to do! I want to spend the day with DCs, and if I'm prepared to inconvenience myself by coming into work, I certainly don't expect to be worse off financially!

I would never expect DH to cover childcare on a day he is working. Annual leave is precious family time together - not time spent sitting. If it was just a few hours in teh evening when DH is home anyway, that would be fine, but expecting DH to take a day off so I could work an additional day (when I already paid for childcare to cover my contracted hours) simply won't be happening.

Surprised by views on this tbh

I think

Just wondering, what line of work you ladies are in, that you are expected to stump up for childcare? Is it terribly well-paid by any chance?

No AnneElliot - many working parents just about cover their childcare costs or are even out of pocket during the preschool years!

What's clear is that this isn't a part time/full time issue. The big divide is between those parents who juggle working hours and don't normally pay for childcare, and have a big shock when occasionally they can't juggle their shifts and have to pay for some, and those people who just accept that if you go to work, you pay for your children to be looked after. I have never seen childcare costs as some sort of entitlement. I actually worked for a couple of years for no net gain when I had two children in nursery. My choice to have children, my bill.

I really don't see how anyone can expect their employer to pay for them to do anything other than the job they are paid to do!

For me, it was a full-time/part time issue. And the jobs I had were not particularly well-paid (although you might need to define well-paid).

When I worked part-time, the extra hours I was required to do were sometimes on days I was not contracted to work, during the day, so dh could not do the childcare as his hours were day time too.

As a full-time worker, any extra hours are in the evening so I can juggle things so that dh can watch the kids. Plus, on a full time wage, it is far easier for me to absorb any extra childcare payments.

So I strongly believe this is predonimamtly a part-time/full-time issue.

And the point is, I was expected to do more than my contract stated (in terms of days and hours), with no option of extra pay so I really felt my employer should have covered my childcare.

I was paying in order to go to work.

I don't see attending a conference as solely being for the employer's benefit. It is as much for the employee's benefit, in terms of personal development and networking. The employee takes that away with them, whichever employer they work for.

Particularly if this is a specialised field.

Hence, it is not unreasonable for OP to bear some cost of it, even if it happens to be childcare.

When I worked pt, I paid for childcare during the hours I was paid and childcare for extra hours that I was not paid for eg meeting outside my work hours. It was my way of showing flexibility to my employer, who in turn showed flexibility to me by letting me off to attend my children's events and taking time out at a moment's notice to attend to a domestic incident, without my making up time up in lieu.

It is hard for me to imagine anyone in a management or professional role asking for childcare costs reimbursement or even overtime pay. But I don't know what the OP does. Perhaps it is public sector - I don't recognise the mentality.

I would think the OP needs to put her nose to the grindstone and put as much water under the bridge as she can from this incident.

ROFL at the cheek of it

Seriously I'd think twice about asking though. It might create the wrong impression.