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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

about the forthcoming BA strike?

903 replies

iwastooearlytobeayummymummy · 15/03/2010 16:21

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

OP posts:
pinkycheesy · 24/03/2010 20:14

Quote:

Dear Colleague

I am writing to advise you that our records show that you failed to report for your rostered duty over the strike period of 20 ? 22 March, we therefore consider you to have taken part in industrial action. As a result the following consequences will apply.

Loss of Pay

As we have previously explained you will not be paid from the point you started taking industrial action until the date you are either allocated another duty, or you undertake your next rostered duty. As you are in breach of contract over this period we are entitled to deduct pay. This deduction will take place in March?s pay.

Removal of staff travel

We have advised all cabin crew on a number of occasions that if you took part in industrial action, this would result in the permanent withdrawal of your staff travel concessions. These concessions are non contractual and granted, changed or withdrawn at the sole discretion of British Airways.

Therefore, from 14 April 2010, you are not eligible to benefit from any staff travel concessions either in your own right or as a nominee of another serving or former British Airways? employee.

You may no longer use any type of rebate travel concessions whether on British Airways flights or those of other airlines associated with British Airways for concessionary travel purposes. Concessions include Basic and Premium Standby, Annual Bookable tickets ? whether granted for status or length of service. You may, however, continue to benefit from discounted commercial tickets (Hotline).

The decision to withdraw staff travel concessions in these circumstances has not been taken lightly. The industrial action in which you took part has severely impacted upon our operations and customers and we will, undoubtedly, suffer additional costs and further losses as a result.

There is no right of appeal following this decision.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 20:22

OSTG isn't really on strike because this isn't her month at work.

BA are running more volunteer courses for ground staff in April, this may present OSTG an opportunity to strike after all, 11 weeks to go until all the strikers can be sacked. I wonder if anyone from their union has mentioned this to them yet?
WW also has the clock ticking for an opportunity to present them with 90 days notice of changes to their contract.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 20:24

Pinkcheesy have you seen so far the strike has cost the average striker 5 days pay.

pinkycheesy · 24/03/2010 20:42

silver I am absolutely astounded by the attitude of the strikers that I have read on the various forums. Things like "I have millions of emails from the company but I am not reading that rubbish, I listen only to Bassa". Even after the staff travel letter, they STILL think the company will cave in. I guess the hardliners at the top of the union feel they have nothing left to lose, and they just dont care about the sheep they are dragging down with them. It seems like most of the non-strikers and the pilots feel desperately sorry for the sheep and are doing whatever they can to get through to them that they should return to work. There is even talk of possibly renegotiating the staff travel for stikers who return to work gracefully this weekend. I do hope they do return, for their sakes and for their families' sakes.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 21:10

It does seem very sad- but DH was also saying that on some forums and IRL CC and flight deck are starting to talk about how pleasant it is to be at work without having to worry about what BASSA say/ moans about BA etc.
Certainly the CC he reported with at the w/e (as a volunteer) were really upbeat, they were surprised at how many people were coming in but pleasantly surprised.
I think there is a hard core unionist militant bunch at the top of the pile of strikers, and the absolute believers in the "truth" of Unite underneath. It is them that I feel sorry for.

What still makes me nauseous are the reps who reported in as sick rather than striking to start a CSD course on Monday! how dare they play with people's trust like that.

DaftApeth · 24/03/2010 22:00

I heard that anyone who reported in sick would be asked for a doctors note.

pinkycheesy · 24/03/2010 22:01

There were two CSDs on FiveLive today talking about loss of staff travel, was it legal, etc. Said there was a cc who called in sick and still got the letter saying staff travel benefits removed. They said she was dying of cancer and had 6 months to live....how could BA be so heartless? These CSDs were proud to tell us that She managed to drag herself off her sickbed to go to BFC however...to show her support for Unite!

I ask:

  1. If she's that ill, surely she shouldnt be flying and wouldnt have been rostered?
  2. If she's that ill, surely she would be on longterm sick leave and not rostered on anyway?
  3. If she's well enough to go to the strike rally, she's well enough to work?
  4. If she really is that ill and only has 6 months, she wont be needing staff travel anyway?
Silver1 · 24/03/2010 22:03

Daftapeth they were told that you can be sick and on strike, so a Drs note would note be enough
If you were ill, unless it was grave you had to come in.
If you had most illnesses you could do other duties rather than CC.
If you came in they could send you home.
Stewards might just say oh it was a Saturday I couldn't get a note, but I was very very ill and I was better by Monday, and it will get knotty.

pandora69 · 24/03/2010 22:03

Hello! A BA pilot here! I've only just found this thread - I had no idea there would be a thread about it here, I've just been looking at pilot-y places. I haven't had chance to read all 606 messages yet, but a quick glance through did make me chuckle. Especially this;

" The only instance when a pilot would earns less would be only this:

IF A PILOT IS A JUNIOR FIRST OFFICER VS A CSD WITH 30 YEARS FLYING EXPERIENCE."

I do recall a flight, a long time ago, when it became apparent to me that I was the lowest paid person working on the aircraft at that moment in time. And I'm not just talking about the captain and the 6 cabin crew, I'm talking about the dispatcher (a sad victim of the cost cutting drive in BA and a job role missed by the pilots,) the refueller, the pushback crew, even the honey wagon man! (The toilet cleaner, to everyone else.) I was considering a job as a Safety and Ememrgency Procedures (SEP) trainer to boost my income, as they were paid a daily allowance that exceeded mine as a junior co-pilot.

I earn good money now, but my God, have I worked for it! I sit now at 36000ft in charge of a 176 ton jet aircraft while the captain is taking their rest, usually over a region of the world we pilots call the GAFA (Great African Fuck All) and negotiate my way past giant thunderstorms, over deserts and mountain ranges, talking to air traffic controllers you can barely understand who are probably operating out of a little hut in a war torn country, in a language they can barely speak. I hope that the skills I practice every 6 months in the simulator will be sufficient should the shit hit the fan, and that I don't kill everyone on board - including myself. I've landed aircraft in storms, gales, snow and fog, and forced myself to be the calm British Airways pilot voice reassuring the passengers that the turbulence we just had is a normal occurence while I have sat there with white knuckles on the control column.

So yes - I do feel I earn my money. And yet, after 12 years in the company I still only earn a little more than the CSDs at the top end. I realise they have been there longer, but honestly? The jobs are not comparable.

The situation that the company and the cabin crew are in now is one of such complexity that I doubt that even many of the cabin crew understand how they have ended up where they are. The Pilot community is watching the situation unfold from behind the sofa as though it is a particularly scary film, but this is real. Willie Walsh is not a man who will bend to any union demand - he is a negotiator and a hard one at that. The Unite and BASSA reps seem to have attempted to negotiate hard too, but in a completely flawed way. The description 'lambs to the slaughter' has been used in many place wrt the cabin crew in recent days, and the pilots genuinely believe that the unions have done their members a huge disservice. But this is a situation that has been building up over decades.

Many cabin crew are reasonable, hard working people who have been allowed over the years to fall into a mindset that the company is out to get them, no matter what. The company is always looking to take something away, or pull a fast one. The same mind set encourages a regular 'them and us' attitude between cabin crew and flight crew, and for the most part this is a one way street. Yes, there are the odd crusty captains or Atlantic barons still out there, but pilots are taught from day one to lead their crew. Cabin crew are taught from day one to follow not the pilots, but to defer to the CSD as their leader. 'Flight deck,' (oh, that we are described as the location where we work rankles us so much! We do not refer to cabin crew as 'galley!') flight deck are merely the drivers and the CSD is expected to liaise with the captain. First officers are spare parts.

The fact that cabin crew are, as a rule, so union-bound and consider themselves so removed from the people that they work with, means that they are not willing to accept any explanation for anything other than the union's. This mentality is what has led to this strike, with many cabin crew striking because the union has told the cabin crew the comapny needs to be taught a lesson.

Tragically, there are cabin crew out there who have declared they would rather BA go bust than consider increases in their working efficiency (they were not asked originally to take a pay cut nor were they asked to work longer hours - they were asked, as were all departments in BA, to discuss amongst themselves how they would like to reach the cost savings required of them by BA. But the union chose not to go to their membership with BA's requests. Instead they waited until BA told them what the solution would be, thus passing up the opportunity to be part of the solution themselves.)

It is a foolish person indeed who takes an action that will result in the loss of thier livelihood if they succeed and in a reduction in their working conditions if they don't. But as has been said already - like lambs to the slaughter, the strikers have followed their union leaders into this situation. I feel sorry for them either way, but hope they do not succeed. I like my job and am proud to work for British Airways.

Phew! All that after reading only 2 pages worth! On to the other 23 pages now.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 22:05

Pinkycheesy who thinks the dying cancer patient might have been a touch of propaganda, for all of the reasons you have listed and then some.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 22:07

Pandora69 you are off for a treat

DaftApeth · 24/03/2010 22:11

Pandora69, does your OH wear a pashmina

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 22:12

If s/he does wear a pashmina they can be in our gang!

isnowsoonenough · 24/03/2010 22:15

pandora69 thank you for taking the time to post. Especially as we are not know as a 'pilot-y place'!! Very interesting.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 22:15

PS Pandora69 don't tell the BALPA forum we are here otherwise our husbands will find out how big our pashmina stash apparently is.

pinkycheesy · 24/03/2010 22:18

pandora welcome!! This has been a fun thread to read and contribute to, although sadly there has only been one pro-Bassa cc on here to give her side, but rather a lot of us pilots' wives! And we all know the truth about the poor lambs about to be slaughtered. Glad you could give the 'flight deck' perspective (I agree, it is rather demeaning to be called that!) I assume you are a female pilot? Enjoy reading the thread, I am sure you will learn some interesting things about your flight deck colleagues (they all earn loads and send their kids to private school and vote Tory)

isnowsoonenough · 24/03/2010 22:19

We could knit our pashmina together and make bunting! Isn't that what MN is about? Craft and stuff? Surely that wouldn't expect thought and debate if the union arrived here to check us out.

pinkycheesy · 24/03/2010 22:20

LOL at the pashmina posts!!

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 22:24

Pinkycheesy you forget we also drive Audis and have no money worries because our husbands earn a fortune.

Isnowsoonenough I know OSTG said that we pilots wives sit here and knit but shh don't tell anyone I can't knit , so I will make the bunting if that's ok? Maybe crochet, I learned how to do it at school

pandora69 · 24/03/2010 22:32

"I'm sure the BA pilots who crash landed at Heathrow are still flying with us "

Nope - there is currently a desire amongst the pilots in BA to see him welcomed back though. He left voluntarily, but it is possible his decision making at the time was not as robust as it could be. It has been suggested that maybe a bit more support from BA and be bit less harrassment from certain cabin crew might have clouded his judgement in deciding to leave.

MunchkinsMumof2 · 24/03/2010 22:38

OSTG please re-read my original post to you and notice that i used to be cabin crew for BA so yes.....I could get the job and did! And I was grateful for it and acutely aware that I was easily replaceable and not naive enough to think that I could blackmail an airline and bring it to its knees in order to prevent a "potential" threat to my T&C's in the future.

pandora69 · 24/03/2010 22:42

"almost every pilot I know sends his/her kids to private school; if I was rich and living in an area with not-so-good state school I would do the same, btw. I'm not bashing people who send their kids to private school, I was explaining that pilots and their family on average do not know financial hardship. The £60,000 necessary flight training required to become a pilot was (to many of them) paid for by mummy and daddy, otherwise you cannot possibly have paid for that and be a pilot by the age of 25. Again, that's great, but don't pretend that you know what it's like to wonder how I'm going to make it to the end of the month"

OK, now I am pissing myself laughing. I have just been to the village state-run school today to watch my daughter in the end of term Easter concert.

I was considered by BA to be worth sponsoring when they had their cadet scheme, and paid back my £60k out of earned salary after passing all of my exams and gaining paid employment as a pilot. But before I was recruited by them I was already part way down the road of paying for my own training. I come from a working class background and was brought up with a hard work ethic. My parents did not pay for anything - everything I have I have worked for myself. I bought my own house when I was 22 and know what it is to struggle to pay the mortgage. I have not always been a pilot and I DO have experience of the real world.

OSTG I believe you are guilty of the very things you are trying to pin on pilots - that one should not pass comment and judgement on someone else's life unless you are better acquainted with it.

pandora69 · 24/03/2010 22:54

Pinkcheesy I am indeed a female pilot - we do exist.

DD goes to the village baby school, I drive a 4x4 that currently smells after I accidently did a 3 point turn in a farmyard that had been hosing out it's pig sties, and I own several pashminas. But I don't actually use them for anything except small travel blankets. It gets cold in the cockpit at night!

I am not married to a pilot, and I cannot knit. OH does not wear a pashmina, but he does wear the scarf I bought for him from New Look if it is snowing. I bought him a cheap one because if I bought him a man-pashmina there is every chance he would leave it on a train.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 23:02

I have to say I hope MAMBS if you are reading, that you have had a better day.

Silver1 · 24/03/2010 23:59

I love this Unite quote

"Unite has condemned the move by British Airways to withdraw travel benefits from striking cabin crew - many of whom rely on the travel assistance to get to work following BA's decision to close its regional bases and require the vast majority of cabin crew to operate out of Heathrow, no matter where they may live.

Unite said: "This is the clearest possible example of BA's bullying and contemptuous approach to its employees. Cabin crew showed last weekend that they will not be intimidated. Unite will challenge this vindictive move in whatever way seems appropriate."

Let's see

You were warned;
It isn't BA's responsibility to get you to work cheaply (they don't offer to fill up DH's car from the petrol tanks);
Your crew could have looked for new jobs when the regional bases closed;
The precedent has been set with some of the baggage handlers during their walkout;
You know the law is on BA's side thus "whatever way seems appropriate" including I suspect dragging out the strike until the strikers are sacked is quite a contentious thing to say to a group you are supposedly keen to continue negotiating with;
Oh and the cabin crew who last week-end showed they would not be intimidated were the ones who showed up for work, and not the ones who sang songs and played drums on the picket lines.