about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Munchkinsmumof2 I am not sure how this can all be described as safe for flying.I don't envy your DH. Things are slightly calmer at Gatwick.

I know Silver1, it upsets me to think that some cc think it's acceptable to talk about wiping their hands with excrement before shaking pilots hands and to threaten not to serve them any food or drink on the flight. I'm hoping the BALPA reps are on this and people are being reported for this vile and childish behaviour.

Munchkinsmumof2 I know exactly what you mean, it is worrying that they would even consider doing that. I also hope BALPA are on to this, quietly in the background.

These people are not caring professionals and I can't believe they still want to be considered as such, after some of the behavior on the pickets and once they got back to work.

Munchinksmum, I can't pass judgement (and neither can you) on what exactly happened as to why the cc wouldn't shake hands with the Captain. I can tell you tho, and this was told to me a few months ago, of a cc who said to the captain as he went to shake her hand that she'd rather give him a hug but not shake his hand as every time the pilots shook her hand they squeezed it too hard. He reported her for this,she got taken off the flight, flown home positioning and underwent disciplinary action.
Now I'm not an expert but surely there is no law that says we are obliged to any physical contact we don't want to engage in? Shaking somebody's hand against their will is assault, isn't it?
Why do you find XXXX keyring harmful in any way? How are they intimidating? Should we ban freedom of expression? So what if some crew might have a keyring with XXXX?
The scabs are welcome to make their own "scab" keyring if they want to

The t-shirts and keyrings are just one part of a campaign of intimidation against the workers.

The shaking hands runs along these lines;
The captain is treating you with respect by offering to shake your hand.
If you refuse you are being disrespectful
If you are disrespectful to the captain, and challenge their authority it is not safe to fly with you.

Scabs is not a nice word OSTG scabbin crew is another chant we have seen CC use on here. I say it again, the behaviour of the strikers shoves aside any notion that they are caring people.

If the strikers are daft enough to advertise that they are among the minority who went on strike they could find it backfires on them. It has been suggested that rather more cabin crew might be interested in a Tshirt which says "I love ID90"

As for the ridiculous suggestions that someone would refuse to shake hands with a captain because, effectively, it might hurt - what kind of jelly-boned person are they? I shake hands with plenty of captains on a daily basis and have never had one squeeze my hand so hard I couldn't face shaking one again. It sounds like a made-up story to me.

As has been pointed out - shaking hands is acknowledged in the Western world as being a civilised way of greeting colleagues, and to refuse to do so shows a lack of respect. As someone who has called cabin crew back to the front of the aircraft when trying to greet them, only to have them ignore me and walk past me, I understand only too well that this level of disrespect has been going on for a long time. Thankfully it is just a small proportion, and who knows, with a bit of luck it may well be that this small proportion who seem unable to act as a crew member and company employee in the company as it is at the moment may well self-select themselves out of the company.

I have heard of a captain who offloaded a crew member because they refused to shake hands but offered him a finger instead! We have no need of these kind of people.

pandora, I'm wondering whether we work for the same company by what you say! I have never witnessesd any colleagues disrespecting pilots. I have some across a few rude pilots ("I said I wanted my dinner at 2200GMT",it took me a few seconds to realise he wasn't joking! it was 22,15, we had a full cabin!) but have never ignored or shown any disrespect to the pilots or cc. I have also come across pilots who have backd me and others up when the csd didn't. And many who have told me a lot of personal stuff, like I have told them.
But you seem a bit harsh in your judgement; perhaps what you interpret as being ignored is just a cc who's extremely busy, had something on their mind, introduce themselves or remember your name on a trip! Believe it or not, on many flights I don't necessarily get the chance to talk to some cc!

Btw I don't think anyone can judge on a cc who doesn't shake hands; you don't know the reasons behind it (cultural? religious? physical? past sexual abuse?). I thought here of all places we know better than judge others when we don't know the full picture.

No doubt the BA persons on this thread have been keeping up to date with messageboards, but here's the enormous PPrune thread for crew only. It's been going like the clappers for days now, and is worth a dip every now & again to get a bit of extra perspective if you are not in the business.

OSTG It is common for cabin crew to ignore or be rude to pilots, even at Gatwick, and it is a fact of life that some pilots (and I do mean a very few) have been rude back.

IF the CC have an issue with physical contact, as per any of the ones in your list, then they cannot do their job. Therefore your reply is in keeping with your others, and utter tosh!

Catinthehat that is a great thread with some brilliant responses, including the CC complaining that they are having their T&Cs eroded by BASSA's action and the unions are making their work worse not better.

Silver, this is the last time I answer your toxic posts. "Even at Gatwick"

Get over yourself.

I too support the strike. yes on a personal level it can cause inconvenience but please look at the bigger pictures.

Historically unions fought to give us our basic rights at work and slowly but surely their status and power is being eroded. As pointed out.......maternity leave, sick leave with pay, holidays with pay, working hours..........

Without unions you would have none of that.

OSTG The idea that my posts are toxic is a little bit rich coming from you. With your talk of how you have decided my husband sleeps around, and bandying about names like scabs and how you think (and I lose that term loosely with you)think my husband is immoral for volunteering.

Fifitot the bigger picture has been explained and examined and people on here (not all but a lot) do not like the strike.

OSTG Here's how it happens. I am on an aircraft on a short turnround, or the cabin crew have nightstopped at a different hotel. For whatever reason I am at the aircraft before the cabin crew get there. As I believe it is important not only to get along on a personal level with everyone on the aircraft I am working on, but also vital that I recognise everyone from a point of view of security, I stand by the aircraft door when the cabin crew arrive. I smile, offer my hand to shake, say 'hello, I'm pandora,' and most cabin crew are human enough to smile back and say hello too. But rarely offer their names - why is that? However, there are a significant number - and by significant I mean at least one in every 10, a number far too large for my liking - who just walk past me. I call 'HELLOOOOO, what's your name please,' and most of the initial ignorers give me a look as though they have been woken from a dream, hesitate, and then smile back with a reply anlong the lines of 'oh I didn't realise you were speaking to me!' However, there are a small number, who continue to ignore me even when I call after them, after they have walked past me without looking at me. I know they have seen me. Either that or they are blind. I have had to tell the CSD on an uncomfortably large number of occasions that I would like the crew member to come and introduce themselves to me because it is rude and not safe. There have been no time issues on these occasions, and if there is something on someone's mind that means they cannot even make themselves familiar with their work colleagues when it is a CAA requirement, they should not be at work.

I am capable enough of doing my job and understanding enough of yours that I can see when time pressures mean you can't get to the front, and those times, (and often during the flight on longer flights) I go down the back myself. Equally, when the flight is busy and there is no place for a quiet couple of minutes I welcome cabin crew who jsut want a minute or two of peace into the cockpit.

What I find very strange is that it is acceptable to say to my face 'oh, you're really nice for flight deck!' which I have had quite a lot, when, if I said 'oh, you're really nice for a hostie,' it would guarantee I was talked about in hushed tones for the rest of the flight.

And I wouldn't go on about religious, cultural etc reasons for not shaking hands. I have come across cabin crew who have told me with glee that they are having their period when doing a Tel Aviv flight - I am sure the connotations of that are not lost on you. I am not talking about people who find it uncomfortable to shake hands - I am talking about people who WON'T greet a pilot.

Pandora, I have no reason to doubt what you have told me, so, yes, those cc you are refering to are rude! (there's one thing we agree on!)

Yes, I get the period/Tel Aviv thing (does that offend you btw?). As a community (and I'm generalising here) we tend to not like discrimination towards women (or gays), so maybe working on a Tel Aviv during our period is one tiny rebellious act against womens oppression perpretrated by religious dogma? (not that we choose which day of our month-cycle we'll be working on a Tel Aviv!).

Btw when you fly to Saudi Arabia and you speak to ATC do you use the word "whiskey" for "w"?

Fair enough if they don't like the strike - surely I am entitled to say that I support it!

The bigger picture is about worker's rights in general and how they are being eroded. The BA issue is just one example.

Sorry fifi but the reason that cc are striking isn't about their rights at all, that has come about after the strike. If you look through this thread there is no one saying that workers in any business shouldn't be allowed to strike. However a little fore thought and dignity in the manner of striking would go down well and parading around in myra hindley and hitler masks is not particularly dignified, it would also be good to have a balanced view on this but UNITE have made up lots of lies and put them out as "truth".

However no one is going to have all of their rights eroded, what everyone seems to forget is that we live in the EU and have to abide by their particular ideals on work - minimum wage, max working hours....

fifitot, I agree with you. People on this thread seem to forget the workes' sacred right to strike, and believe me we haven't taken this decision lightly. If over 80% of cc have voted in favour of strike, is because we had no other option. Our management want to make us pay for their incompetence, and have shown time and time again that they want to impose drastic changes without agreeing with the Unions first.

It's a sad state of affair when people wish on a particular workforce to work as cheaply as possible (and if you read this thread you'll see some people wish for me to lose my job!) and state clearly that we shouldn't strike. Read this thread (unless you have something better to do ) and draw your conclusions

It seems we are forgetting that it is a privelage during a recession to have a job, not a given right. There are plenty of other workers who are doing more to ensure they can keep working and keep money coming in including other factions within ba. For some reason though cc who have striked seem to think they are god's gift which has been established time and again that they aren't irreplaceable. No one is.

OSTG Please remember that the actual figures involved are as follows:

90% of BA cc are Unite members.
78% of these cc voted.
80% of these votes were for a strike.

Computing this further gives 80% of 78% of 90% of the total cc workforce. In other words about 62%.

Let me restate that; 62% of BA cabin crew voted for strike action. Not 80%. That is a disingenuous figure quoted by Unite officials to make the strike look like a more popular act than it actually was.

You say you had no option. Actually had quite a lot of options here. BA needs savings and your union was at liberty - as were the unions of all the other staff groups in BA - to come up with the exact method that those cost savings were to be made. Now tell me if I am wrong, but I think that there are very few employers as large as BA who are enlightened enough to let the employees dictate to them how they are prepared to save money. Usually employees are told 'this is how it's going to happen.' With all of the options that were available to Unite, they chose not to commence discussion until after the deadline had expired, and that is when this whole sorry mess began.

80% of cabin crew voted to strike-30% went on strike.
Gatwick CC withdrew when they realised Heathrow BASSA reps were ready to send them down smelly creek.

Fifitot-people can vote to strike, people can strike, but they should at least strike over the issue that they are aggrieved about.CC have voted to strike over one issue, but are actually concerned about other issues that might happen.

They voted for the stike but then didn't do it, says rather a lot i feel.

OSTG,I couldnt care less if you lose your job or not, you are correct in saying that earlier, however I care a lots that my DH doesn't lose his!

MABS, how is DS?

(ds is much better thanks Silver, we are going away thurs using our concessions ;-) ) major surgery in a couple of months to look forward to tho) thanks for asking

Ah staff travel, lovely isn't it.
I do hope OSTG isn't your cabin steward.

I do wonder if UNITE will bother to hold another strike, they don't seem to be doing their members any favours-especially as more UNITE members (engineers etc) volunteered to save their jobs, rather than picketed to save their comfy lifestyle.

From what I can gather, should B.A be successful with their restructuring of the airline, the cabin crew could loose 40% of their wages.

I don't know about you but that would really worry me. I've based my mortgage and outgoings on what I believed was my agreed salary.

I would also, expect that the savings accrued from such changes would probably do no more that line the pockets of those at the top of the scale in B.A. The rich get richer saying springs to mind. It's all just another example of corporate greed.

I had planned to travel with B.A myself over the strike period but didn't as I'd read quite a long time ago that there was a possibility of a strike. Had I booked, I'd have no-one but myself to blame should I have been left stranded.

You would think that the Company would make the effort to negotiate effectively with Unite. At the end of the day, it's their responsibility to look after us travelers and maintain the reputation of the airline. Lets not forget how much all this disruption and their contingency plans are costing. Surely, a wise CEO would prefer to meet somewhere in the middle.

I don't understand why people are so angry at the cabin crew. Personally, I blame the Management. Obviously a large portion of it's employees are very unhappy.