about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Hi All...I have just come across this discussion thread...

I am a BA purser who has been with BA for the last 18 years, I love my job, well I used to!

I respect my colleagues who both fly the aircraft and those who work along side me in the cabin. I do not feel that I am overpaid for the role that I do. I am 75% so I work 3 weeks on and 1 week off.....I work over 15 hours some days, and miss 2 nights sleep a week on occasions...I have lost count of the birthdays I have missed, my kids plays, Christmas and new year at home......but I accept all this as it comes with the job...but £24,000 a year is not what I call overpaid. I do get allowances so that I can eat when I am away...yes my hotel is paid for...being in a hotel away from my family for upto 9 days is lonely ... very lonely.

When I say this I know that am speaking on behalf of the majority of crew... we do not want to strike... we have been put in to this position by Willy Walsh... he has spent more time and energy in going ahead with these strikes than trying to avert them... he is bringing the company down.... I was here before he came and I hope I will be here when he has gone.....but will there still be a BA to work for?...... damn right there will be..... he needs to go and start negotiating rather than imposing.........

I fail to see how so many of you have made comments against the Cabin crew community without knowing the full facts.....many of comments have come from flight crew....who are not aware of all the facts.... this is not just some petty disagreement we are talking about.... some of my colleagues are earning a basic pay of £12000....which would be reduced somewhat with all the savings willy has in mind........ Work it out girl's...we all know that £12000 does not go very far with a family.....many of these crew still live with their parents as they cannot afford to rent or buy their own property...

We are all prepared to make sacrifices, we have already had a pay and increment freeze...we have offered a pay cut......... and Willy turned it all down....what company in this current climate would turn a pay cut down??? A company that has another agenda.... an agenda to break the union so that he can impose any new terms and conditions that he wants...

So girls...... please.... look at the picket line this week end and see how many women you see there...the majority are mum's just like you and I... they are all fighting for their jobs to maintain a decent standard of living for their families.... you may not agree with the strike but surely you cannot blame them for trying to hold on to what they have got.........I realise that all of you who are married to pilots may be backing BA all the way... I can understand that... you are trying to protect your partners job's. Just try to to look at it with a different perspective....just for a moment.

And to the sick comment made about the crew member with cancer....unfortunately there is a high level of female crew who have had or have got breast cancer, (we are all concerned that it could be related to the high levels of radiation that we receive during our flying careers) the company on the whole are usually very supportive of these crew, and I hope they would continue to do so......... no one is looking for a sympathy vote....so please refrain from making such remarks...

I am one of the many at the moment off sick....and I have a doctors note, however I have still lost my staff travel and I am not being paid...as I have been sick over the industrial period I am deemed as going on strike.... and I would have gone on strike had I have been able to...but I have just had my 6th miscarriage....and I'm not looking for sympathy....but I did not expect to be read a statement from a manager when I rang in sick......... I was apalled at how I have been treated...I expected some support at the very least..... so now my doctor's note apparently is not good enough.... and my GP is fuming and quite rightly so.....

So girls, I think I have said enough.... I have had my rant, and I feel much better for it..... goonight and godbless

Pandora, nice to hear from you directly, as so far we've had contributions from Pilots' Wives who've all pointed out how us cc earn too much whilst their husbands seem hard done by in comparison, with one pointing out that she was refused her choice of wine whilst flying with us on staff travel (the bottle hadn't been opened).
My point is that the vast majority of pilots come from a privileged background where their parents paid for their very expensive flying lessons and are a bit removed from the reality of having to make ends meet.
Like you said, you have worked hard for your license and did it all by yourself, but you're not typical. And I don't mean to have a go at peope simply because they were born into a middle-class family, I was trying to point out that it's a bit rich of the Pilots'Wives Pashmina Posse to tell me I shouldn't strike and should just shut up and let BA screw me over so that the years of training it took their husbands to qualify don't go to waste in case BA goes down.
I can't simply sit back and let Willie reduce my wages further! I work 50%, take home £900 a month if I'm lucky, so no, I'm not going to accept a wage reduction!

Like I said before, pilots should be well paid (and they are!), and yourself admit that now you earn more than the most senior CSD, which is good money; why isn't that good enough?
Do you think that a newly recruited, junior FO should earn more than the oldest CSD?
The CSD would have given a lifetime of sweat, hard work, taken shit from countless passengers and crew,missed god knows how many xmases with the family, then that goes through the window because a 25 year old FO with 400 hourse of fying lesson joins the company? I think not.

Btw, if you read through this thread, you'll see how the whole pilots' thing started: it was pointed out to me that Virgin crew have showed no solidarity with our strike and I said that what was more appalling is that our pilots have let us down in our hour of need. Not even a message of "we're with you, we wish you good luck", nada!
This wil drive a wedge between the cabin and the f/d, thicker than the f/d door.
I've recently done a flight where I was looking after the pilots (777) and at one point the purser said to me "you're too nice to them, remember they think you're getting paid too much", and sadly he did have a point. Why should I go the extra mile when you're full of contempt towards us? We bring you a selection of newspapers and magazines (I always bring the Indie and Guardian amongst others, and always get asked for a Torygraph, no surprise there, eh? ), do nice stuff for you (beyond the normal "feeding and watering"), while you're there trying to work out what each of us earns in case there's someone earning more than you???

You won't ever find yourselves at the receiving end of the type of traconian impositions we're being subjected to, but at least have a bit of sympathy for us, we're not pilots but we're still your colleagues!

Maddyjensen, sorry about your miscarriage. I agree with what you say, but then again you and I know what we're going through at work! Willie-no-mates has created a culture of fear and bullying, even at work we're constantly watching our backs for fear of being reported and suspended.

Remember we (the fabulous and glamourous non-pashmina posse) will get through these hard times. Last weeken at Bedfont showed me that we are one strong family, we're smart, we're fun, we're hard workers, we have pride. Compare with Willie-no-mates and his blood-thirsty puppets!

Hasta la victoria

Yes I do think a junior FO should earn more than a senior CSD (who doesn't even work during the flight) Pilots train harder and longer and do more, and when hundreds of lives depend on it they will be the ones who have trained to save them. Coming into Heathrow on a 777 whose engines have stalled, I wont be as concerned as to how good the Kir Royal which the CSD didn't even make is, compared to how good the emergency landing of the FO and Captain are.

If you know the pilots might prefer a different paper, why play the game of pretending to be helpful and offering a paper you know they wont want?

Why continue to have some sort of stupid ignorant dig about pashminas constantly, if it's the cleverest thing you can say, then I can see why you would worry about finding a job in the real world.

MaddyJensen I have explained why I feel a pay cut would be unfair on Gatwick who cheerfully work very hard under the new T&Cs and thus why I can see why it was declined as an offer.

Whilst I am very sorry about your miscarriage, trust me I know how hard having miscarriages are it was a second late miscarriage which triggered the discovery of my own tumour, which is why I was appalled to see the propaganda used of a cancer patient. Propaganda is how I see it, and I agree with every statement made by pinkycheesy

The law is very clear, even if you are sick and unable to work you can still be considered to be on strike. You have said that you would have been on strike so you fall into the sick and striking category, the law makes this clear and I am sorry your union did not explain that to you.

The idea that somehow we should be sympathetic because the airline might go bankrupt for the sake of some mums on a picket line, is on this forum insulting, we are all mums, we all care about our family futures. Those mums are on the picket lines trying to destroy my family's livelihood because their union is playing silly beggars and you come on here asking for my sympathy?

I find some of you to jump to conclusions without having enough info to do so.

I've been working for BA for 12 years and they are not the caring employer they portray themselves to be.

The current climate of industrial unrest has been carefully orchestrated by Willie Walsh so that he can "bust" the union.

The recipe is as follow
1-Claim you demand immediate reduction in staff cost and working practices.
2-when the union turns up and tries to minimise the impact on their members just ignore them.
3-Once you have let the frustration of fruitless negotiations simmer impose the desired changes regardless of what the union say.Who do these people think they are anyway?
4-Once you've reached boiling point let them vote for strike and circumvent them through the court.
5-Make them re-ballot and portray them as a bunch of mad self serving militants and ridicule them in the national press.
6-Continue ignoring their anger and frustration and offer more threats and try to keep dividing the stupid stewardesses (who cares what they think?)
7-Let them strike and show them their utter uselessness by claiming that their industrial action has no impact whatsoever, even though you were claiming the exact opposite the previous week (we're all gonna go bust if you strike).
8-Once they're tired and have no more resistance because not only are they dealing with a spoilt brat of a CEO and also the real spoilt brats at home, then sack them or offer a new contract on minimum wage.The ones married to well heeled husbands won't care and those who rely on the income won't have a choice.

Welcome to British Airways the world's favourite employer.....

PS : average wage at LHR (full time) 18000£ and 14000£ at LGW

Having read the posts of Silver1 I just feel that British people and on this occasion British women do not understand the meaning of solidarity and have a vision of employer-employee relations that would make a hard line French right winger blush with embarrassment.
Moving into the 21st century business practices does not mean stepping back 200 hundred years...or does it?

Denisefabr- Can you blame WW for wanting to 'bust' the union?? That was partly why he got the job - he certainly wasn't/isn't there to win friends! You only have to look at some other organisations eg Royal Mail and see what a stronghold the Union has on the company and the effect that has for its customers and you can understand why it is in the best interests of the company /customers /employees to have a union who genuinely represents its members and is part of the process. Why are more and more cc choosing to terminate their membership at the moment?- that says a lot to me.

I agree BA isn't quite the caring organisation any more and often doesn't present anywhere near the same service levels as in previous years. BUT if this was wanted it needs to be paid for - there lies the problem. Customers more often than not seem to want a product that is cheap but has all the bells and whistles on it. They don't exactly go together from a business perspective.Lower price point must equate to lower costs otherwise the product isn't viable. So what do you do? When someone asked this question previously the Unite supporters answers were not cost saving measures, but resulted in increased costs. Perhaps that's why cc are Cabin Crew and Pilots are Pilots and WW is Willie Walsh. Even if he is a horrible man - somewhat irrelevent in all of this anyway, he is showing a more caring attitude towards the business than many cc as he/the managers/the board and plenty of other BA employees are doing whatever they can to save BA whilst some of those employed in highly Customer Focused roles don't seem to give a flying fox about the customers or BA. If I was your manager witnessing the comments some cc have been making I would be seriously doubting how fit/appropriate it was for you to be employed by this organisation. If you are that angry and hate it that much just leave- everybody would be better of..

denisefabr says "who do these peoplethink they are anyway?"
ermmm...the ones running the business? The management at BA is there not just for employing cc, it is answerable to the board and to its shareholders, and responsible for all the other work groups in the airline. If cost savings need to be made, I think its pretty fair that they asked every group to present its own ideas.

I worked for Sainsburys when it was 'top dog' in the early 90s - they cut some costs by making redundant a whole layer of instore junior managers (the most experienced and therefore most expensive). That was the death knell for the company and within 3 yrs, Tesco became the number 1 supermarket.

BA didnt go down that route in 2009, and all the work groups came up with cost cutting plans, except cc! When pushed, they suggested a paycut, but it didnt go even halfway to saving the costs they had been asked for. And the union stuck fast, not prepared to give any more, firmly believing WW would cave. He didnt, and despite numerous opportunities, the union has refused to take steps to reduce costs. Why should the rest of the airline support this strike? They all managed to put cost saving measures in place, why should cc be exempt? Cc have proved to be easily replaceable (volunteers did a good job over the strike), they are not the backbone of BA.

Silver1.... Your comments are actually quite insulting... do you work for BA or is it your husband?

We as crew work damn hard on flights to serve the general public and to look after the flight crew at the front!! I have always had total respect for the flight crew, however recently a lack of support on their part (not all flt crew....some are very supporting) has caused friction amongst the cabin crew community. How would you know if a CSD works hard or not???? I for a fact know they do. I am really insulted by your comments towards crew, I bet you don't make those remarks when your sitting in the cabin, do you?????

For your information my doctors note is a document which states that I was sick i.e not fit to operate either a flying or ground duty over before the strike started... as it is for 2 weeks this continues over the strike period. My employer CANNOT deem this as taking industial action as I have been medically examined by professionals, not by my manager. I have sought legal advice and BA are completely incorrect, my solicitor is now taking this matter further.

Why are you so bitter about CSD's and crew earning a decent salary? So a CSD earns the same as a junior FO???? so what..... The CSD has proboably done at least 30 years... he/she might not be able to land an aircraft but he might be able to save someones life in the cabin....A pilots salary will go up.the CSD is probably on the top of his/her scale....

A few years ago someone collapsed in front of me ....cardiac arrest.... the FO just stood there and froze.... the crew... well we did the best we could, the passenger unfortunately died later in hospital.....the morale here is that we are all highly trained, piolts to fly the a/c and crew to work in the cabin and take care of our passengers...so lets forget this business of pilots should earn far more because of their responsibilities...we all have responsibilities....we all play a part in an emergency situation.. so please don't try and play down the role of crew any further!!!

mADDYJENSEN YOU AND OSTG have both been very insulting, so your comments are a touch rich.

I am sure BA will tidy up who is entitled to what after the strike, but you were not clear when your illness began. BA is not a heartless employer, when I was having chemotherapy they bent over backwards to accommodate my husband being at home when he was needed-being able to attend my medical appointments with me, and giving him leave during my periods of surgery. When they phoned to discuss when he would be working, the first question was always how is your wife.
Another captain DH knows wife had breast cancer-she was very ill, and they cleared his roster, for six months he was more or less permanently off work.

But actually when you have cancer you don't necessarily have the whole period off work, and ghoulishly parading around cancer patients to say that BA is uncaring is grotesque. Cancer is about living, and surviving, and being thrilled that you can everyday make choices, including on days when you are well enough work or strike. This supposed person (and I don't believe the story) made a choice if she went on the pickets on a day when she could have been at work. If like you her sick note covers her over the industrial period then she like you will be protected, if she wants to be considered a worker for that day rather than a striker.

The CSDs do not work a service on the flight-that is what they are protesting about, being made to provide a service. Pilots save lives everytime they land a plane safely.

Whilst we are on the subject of saving lives, I once saved a choking toddler, does that mean I am entitled to spend the rest of my life demanding enhanced benefits because the poor parents looked on in shock unable to do something-no I used the skills I had at that moment and got on with my life, grateful and happy yes, but not demanding pay increases from my employer.

The French are very much in to trade unions-so not sure where Denisefabre gets her idea that they are hard liners from.

Go to PPrune and see how many people support you on there-cabin crew flight crew, they are all against you-a lot of different perspectives on here do not support you, passengers, pilots, managers wives, just because you shout bully and insult it doesn't make you right.

About 15 years ago when BA were on a recruitment drive they actively went all over Europe recruiting people. Part of the deal for potential candidates was the ability to work on longhaul and commute from their home town.

People seem to have forgotten why BA crew are striking and just want to have a crack at the crew as they're seen as an easy target. Even if earnings are a little higher than average it shouldn't mean a race to the bottom for wages and working conditions.

WOW!!!!
I don't support the strike, (i'm pax), but stunned at how little support from colleagues on that forum pprune.
We can argue and discuss as much as we want but the fact of the matter is a. Costs must be cut b. BA initially gave cc opportunity to put forward acceptable offer. c. after poor decisions by the union and much grandstanding, BA put forward an offer. d. more crap negotiating, strike threats, and loses incurred, BA puts forward worse offer e. more strikes = losses...BA puts forward even worse offer and now cc are losing benefits f. cc are not indispensable (hardly anyone in the world is), at the end of the day they will either have to accept a very poor package that reflects the cost of strike action or get another job.

It's a very sad, serious situation. btw, ba pilots are on radio 5 live.

Cobblers, I would like to support the crew as much as the next person...point is cost savings MUST be made for ba to survive. Other staff have negotiated their t&cs. why do cc feel that they are so special that they shouldn't be affected by the cost cuts.

Industry has changed annd if ba doesn't change with it? There will be no ba.

Whifflegarden exactly.
There is very little support inside the company for the strikers. CC on here can get stroppy about that, but it's a bit like being back at school, you can't make someone like you.
50% roughly of Heathrow CC went on strike, and 3% at Gatwick. That leaves the majority of CC not willing to strike and BASSA/UNITE can't seem to get this through their heads. The strikers are the minority even in their own group.

whiffle thank you for availing yourself of the correct information! Too many passengers are just blanketly blaming BA for everything without understanding the background to this strike. It IS really sad that cuts have to be made and that nobodys job is quite as cushy as it once was, but that's the way the world goes and in a recession and in the face of cutthroat competition, a business has to do what it can.

From what I see of the pilots, they are furious at how Bassa has misled its members, and they are hugely impressed by the sensible non-striking cc who have worked really hard this week and are keen to keep the airline flying. Pilots hate the them&us attitude of the cc but realise it is ingrained from day 1 by the cc trainers. This attitude is apparently not in evidence when certain cc are on the picket line......

Did OSTG ever come back on and answer as to whether her manager responded to her when she informed BA that she was supporting the strike?

It is interesting to me that BA share price seems to be improving because of the support Willie Walsh has garnered with regards to how he has been responding to strike action.

Do you think that Unite have failed to recognise that Willie Walsh used to be a union rep.

By Tony Woodley attempting to bypass negotiation with Willie Walsh and go straight to the board has backfired - now ofcourse Walsh has the entire support of the BA board - meaning this can run for longer.

pinkycheesy I am sure your DH has had the experience of diverting, needing discretion making changes to a flight plan, and cabin crew all need to check what the union reps say before they will continue working. Apparently this hasn't happened this week and it makes for a better team work operation.

OSTG apparently had a reply that said thanks for your email.

However WW has started more training courses for volunteers to run through April and May, so she should get the opportunity to strike if she wants to.

cobbler people seem to have forgotten why cc are striking

Yes, the supporters on this forum keep going on about paycuts. The BASSA reason for the strike is the crewing reduction on LHR flights, ie the CSD having to work the service. BA hasnt imposed any paycuts so cc cannot strike over it. Unless youre an incredibly lazy CSD, why would you bother risking your job over the crewing reduction? Thats why the cc have so little support, because its a ridiculous thing to strike over.

The sad thing is it looks like CC will have to pay for the strike from somewhere, which will mean pay cuts or redundancies.
At the end of the day, CC would have been miles better off if UNITE had never started negotiating.

Too true Silver1. It's like watching an accident happen, you know what's going to happen but there's nothing you can do about it.

Actually, cc would be miles better off if BA had simply made the role of CSD redundant, would have saved a fortune.

And maybe then the BASSA reps could be drawn from the ranks of the intelligent forward-thinking younger cc who have everyones interests in mind, not just their own.

takes cover while a CSD comes to flame here

The question is does the UK have a problem with democracy?
From what I read on here it seems to be very much the case.
We are after all working mothers trying to juggle a job and family life, and when we dare stand up to a bully namely Mr Walsh we are vilified for exercising what is a legal right to withdraw our labour following a long and protracted dispute.
Other democracy in the EU do not have this pro management anti union stance and choose to remain rather neutral as they appreciate that grown up people do not always agree and sometimes industrial action has to be taken to bring one of the parties back to the table.

As to cost cutting BA crew are amongst the cheapest and most productive cabin crew compared to other large carriers with similar network.
Lastly the union has offered a pay cut and many other concessions that are too complex to be discussed on here.

Thanks for the response silver my eyes must of got all glazed over and blurry at all the pashmina bashing.

I am loving these flexible working arrangements paraded here - OSTG works one month on, one month off.
Maddyjensen works 75%.

Oh, yes and while we are on the subject of saving lives - do you think all the fantastic employees of the NHS will get enhanced benefits for their life saving antics? They will just have to get on with it and deal with budget cuts.

Maddyjensen, read through this whole thread: you'll see the Pilot's Wives ganging up against cc. It could be because we're the women that their DHs spend nights away with (although I have no reason to doubt their DHs fidelity)? Then I realised their attitude is that CC should just shut the fuck up and work for peanuts, this coming from people who don't know what financial hardship is. We should just "know our place" in a nutshell

Maddyjensen I agree it would have been nice to have seen some moral support from our pilots, like I said they have let us down in our hour of need.