about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Okay one more time OSTG
YOU WROTE

all crew to take a 3% paycut (this has been proposed by Unite but BA said no

I wrote and re-wrote and shall write again.
BA management declined this offer because it meant imposing a paycut on Gatwick and other CC who work to the new cost saving measures, so that Cabin Crew at Heathrow who earn the most anyway wont have to work harder.

• But many people have taken a pay cut haven't they, apart from cc.
• by reducing middle management jobs, who would you report to? Surely someone has to manage you
• there are always going to be some people who won't get what they want on board, if you have a choice between "beef" and "chicken" on a long haul flight, are they meant to load 2 of everything? That isn't massively cost effective. Perhaps the argument should be that they cut down on the amount that they could provide to decrease wastage
• have never been on a flight where cc actually gave a damn if my inflight entertainment didn't work - flew to Australia with nothing working at all and was told "tough"
• how does one crew member down affect the service so much - this seems a logical thing to do - if you were doing all the work on the plane I would agree (i.e cleaning up before and after passengers like on the low cost airlines but you aren't) is this so that one member can have a rest at some point?
• creating a culture of recognition is a good idea, but how would this be implemented? But if you have this throughout it would mean that Managers would also have to be part of this scheme which in all likelihood would mean bonuses. And how would this be implemented if you only had CSD and no management to "control" this?

BA have also put forward proposals that would have meant better conditions for cc and UNITE said No. The backlash here has been that union members thought that by turning down a reasonable offer they would get a better one, not a worse one. And each time you have sent negotiators in, they haven't "negotiated" particularly well on your behalf.

No I don't get weekends off as some training is done at weekends[P/T W/E sTaff] but I do get a day off if I work a bank holiday [not all my work is in the UK] Your union should if any good include pay reviews after a time period normal practice in business afaik
I would also take action against staff who made liable comments against the company I work for again a normal practice this does not include I hate my job type comments we are all allowed say that
Can you sell BA company /corporate stuff on ebay should be ok if you have a reciept to prove purchase not ok if it compromises security
Why should those who have taken a cut and change in T&C take 3% cut or do you propose to reinstate their origional T&C?

Silver, the last time I went to India I took 2 suitcases full of children's clothes and food, which I then gave to "the untouchables" in the slums, with the help of my colleagues.
Last time I was in Harare (we don't fly there anymore), I was there for 5 days (the whole trip was worth £100). I took a taxi, stopped at a chemist, spent £30 of my money on formula milk, then went to Parananiata (sp?) hospital, where the baby unit is full of motherless babies on the brink of starvation. They also had no nappies or nappy cream. I had stolen 10 nappies form the aircraft for them, btw, no doubt you would sack me over this if you could.

So, I'm not the heartless bitch you think I am. I didn't compare my job to a sweatshop, I asked the question that should our working practises and pay aspire to be like the ones in sweatshops to save the company? Would that be ethical?

Doodley, I wasn't talking about "chicken" or "beef" . If we're supposed to have a Chablis in Club and it's not there, it's embarassing to have to explain that, err, we haven't got it to the pax who've paid a fortune. This happens time and time again.

No, when I go to work I report to a pc, then go to a briefing with all the crew. A manager is not necessary at all!

to whoever asked me if we treat passengers who miscarry- yes. Well, we do whatever we can do under the circumstances. If the miscarriage is well and truly happening (lots of blood and abdominal pain), there's nothing we can do to stop it. In my case I took the pax to a flat bed in Club, gave her oxygen, monitored her temperature and pulse and wrote all this down, made her comfortable, gave her sanitary pads, a towel, a carrier bag (I asked her to feel free to put her used pads in the bag, in case the paramedics wante to see them), gave her 500mg paracetamol for pain, water and some food. We arranged to paramedics to meet the flight on landing. She was taken away oin a stretcher, she had been 13 weeks pg

OSTG - we are not saying you are a heartless bitch - where does anyone say that? We aren't judging your charitable donations to anyone, we are talking about the collective you. You (collectively - although I doubt very much that all cc go to the slums, visit hospitals etc etc) won't be able to achieve these things without your jobs. Without any money coming in you won't have the ability to help other people out in this way.

As far as working practices and pay asiring to be like a sweatshop in a third world country, unlikely isnt' it. Not a good way of describing things, we live in the EU and have minimum wage so you aren't going ever be earning £1 per week or in disgusting circumstances are you.

Ok so you don't have Chablis but I expect you have something equal to it on the list or do you only have 1 type of white wine, believe it or not people do understand when things run out and I doubt that it is that embarrassing for you - having a whole stock of chablis on the plane wouldn't be a cheaper option so perhaps cutting down to 1or 2 choices rather than having endless choices.

So who would the pc report to? And who would they report to? And them? Management unfortunately is a necessity throughout business, no doubt making a few redundancies would be a cost cutting measure BUT there surely aren't as many managers as there are cc and other members of staff - who have already taken a paycut.

the whole system is computerised, and people who work in operations supervise that things are running smoothly. Cabin crew managers are a surplus, they're only needed for CSDs.

It's the paycut OSTG let's focus on that why do you say that Gatwick who work to the cost cutting measures already, have to take a pay cut so that Heathrow CC wont have to, and will still be on higher salaries even with the cut.
How can you justify this?

Just found this interesting blog which shows up Unite's utterly made-up facts about the strike
(BTW the blogger is an American who usually flies KLM/Star Alliance but is interested in factual reporting)

I am sure that the Club Class wine list has 4 wines listed, then says something to the effect of 'the wines on today's service will be a selection from this list'. ie no we cant guarantee we have every listed wine. So why would you feel embarassed for not having one of the wines.
(I was REFUSED a glass of wine on the grounds that none of the bottles had been opened yet! Yes I was on an ID90 and that's the 'law', and I didnt really mind, it made a change to see cc actually adhering to the rules!)

ostg, how do you feel about the fact that BA cc are amongst the highest paid cc in the world?

Or is that not true...?

Silver, like I sai, if it was in my power, I would reintroduce the missing crew member on the busiest routes (both at Gatwick and Heathrow). Who said Gatwick should get a paycut so Heathrow don't have to?????

Pinkycheesy, having a pax ask for a wine when thishasn't been loaded is ok once, but not so ofen! Sometimes it's the same with the starters/main course choice. You are constantly apologising for not having something which is on ethe menu.

Yes pinky, when serving staff pax we're not supposed to open up a new bottle of wine, as a cost saving measure.But if the bottle has already been open, then you can drink it all if you wish. Maybe some time ago we would have still opened a bottle for staff, but now we don't for fear of being reported and sospended. It's sad, as ID90 are still a pofit for BA, yet you don't get a washbag (each washbag cost BA £1), and are often made to feel guilty for breathing!

Btw the cost sving measures have also hit the service in economy class. Cheaper ingredients all around. Even the little side salad which used to be decent now looks like regurgitated hay. The chicken in the main course has a very weird texture, like eating sponge. The pudding (strawberry cheesecake) contains no strawberry whatsoever. The second service on most long haul flights is a cheap and nasty sandwich and a biscuit. It used to have some fresh fruit with it, and better fillings. I cringe at the thought of it! I'm not sure that cutting costs at the expense of customers will pay off in the long term!

this says it all. BA share price has gone UP because the markets are backing management to come out of this dispute on top.
I don't begrudge cc their right to strike and to fair conditions...it seems to me that the union have made a right old mess of negotiations and that BA will stand firm.
By rejecting initial offers, the Union thought BA would come back with better proposals but unfortunately the offers are getting worse and worse. CC should direct their anger to the Unions more than anyone else.
WW was brought in as ceo with ba in a challenging position and is trying to save a struggling airline. The costs and losses incurred by this strike/strike threats will have to be borne by someone and as ba can't afford to cover them, guess who will pay? Best case scenario = cc. worst case scenario ba goes under = everyone pays.

sudoku, no we aren't. Singapore airlines earn more than us (and the cost of life in Singapore is lower than the uk), they also have a lot more cabin crew on a plane than us.
United airlines earn like us, the cost of life in the US is less than here. They have to buy their uniform tho, which we don't.
Virgin crew take home an average of £1,600 compared to £1,800 (BA) for the same cabin crew role.
Lufthansa and Air France earn the same as us (but are, in fact, better off as life in the continent is cheaper).

fwiw, as a premium business customer; the most important aspect of ba service to me was a. direct flights getting me to destinations asap and b. comfortable cabins/flat beds and lounges to get some rest and be ready for meetings. c. reliability and timeliness. Also good to support the national carrier.
The rest, including cc, are all niceties. cc on other premium airlines are just as good.
My colleagues would concurr.
forgive spelling, one handed typing

I forgot Air New Zealand! They earn same as us too!

whiflegarden, I hope one day soon you'll try out our new First, it's rather impressive and sets us miles apart from Virgin's Upper Class (which is really comparable to our Club, not First).

yes virgin upper can't compare to BA first, BA first is lusssshhhhh, something to look forward to when you don't want to get on yet another plane and leave dc behind .
however virgin upper will be perfeclty adequate when I eventually go back to work as I'd rather be sure that I'll get to where I want to go and back quickly rather than faffing about with ba on strike. I just can't risk not being sure I'll be back on time for dcs.

Got to agree with WG here. Interested in direct flights with a decent seat / bed. CC are all pretty much the same on big airlines. Although that said, my most negative experiences with service have been on BA, including being chucked out of the BA lounge as my card had expired whilst on Mat leave and I hadnt recieved another. They called me a liar and didnt seem to be at all bothered about my £1m travel budget with BA as the preferred carrier (got card back when I wrote in but no apology). They did change their policy re mat leave for business customers when they eventually realised that some of them were WOMEN!!!

OSTG you said Who said Gatwick should get a paycut so Heathrow don't have to?????

It's not so that Heathrow wont have to have a pay cut-but why should Gatwick have a pay cut when they earn less than you (even with an across the board pay cut) and they work harder than you with fewer crew per flight. Why should they be penalised so you don't have to work as hard?

I would just like to say that if the service of BA was in any way comparable to Singapore Airlines then maybe, just maybe I would feel a little bit more for cc. However Singapore Airlines makes BA look like Easy Jet on a bad day. The service is completely incomparable, business class on Singapore Rocks, Business class on BA for me involved still indescrible slimy food, just warmed up and no real difference in service by cc, whereas the SA CC are in a league of their own.

I am not sure that life on the continent is any cheaper than here though. Some places are extortianate regardless of the pound/euro situation - they also have very very different taxation to us, and if you want to drink alcohol in a scandinavian country just hope you are a millionaire!

Can I just say that no living in the continent is not cheaper than here. Since the Euro has strengthened you get less for your money.

I have met a few CC who live on the continent and commute (mainly to Heathrow) for work.

First Class BA is lovely-there is no doubt about it, even on staff travel (not as frilly) it is still lovely, but BA are slashing back on first to cut costs, and a lot of aircraft no longer have a 1st cabin, with more aircraft having it removed in the future.

OSTG I know in an ideal world you would have everyone working/earning the same, but that's not your union's goal sadly, which is yet another reason why UNITE might be said to be working against their members interests.

Doodleydo, my point exactly! Singapore airlines crew are well paid and each plane has so many crew on it they take shifts doing the service, they are treated very well and it shows! Every time I come across one of their crew getting off a 747 I see an army of cabin crew getting off, and they (and other airlines) have commented on how few of us there are coming off a Jumbo!
Silver you're twisting everything I say and sprouting out falsities, I'm exhausted trying to correct you every time, I hope people don't believe what you say.

Gatwick earn less than us, it was never imposed on them, it was their T&C when they joined. The new fleet (with new recruits doing the better paid fights for peanuts) will affect them as well, so their wages will go down considerably.

why oh why do you say "why should they be penalised SO YOU DON'T WORK SO HARD"? It's one of those silly questions which imply an answer .

I'm off to cook dinner. Bye all, please stop bitching.

"Can I just say that no living in the continent is not cheaper than here. Since the Euro has strengthened you get less for your money."

True, but it would depend which currency you're being paid in. If you were working for Lufthansa/ Air France wouldn't you be paid in Euros? Agree it would be different for (eg) BA staff who live in (eg) France.

I would dispute the fact that living in Singapore is cheaper than the UK.