about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

ostg, thanks for the clarification re salaries.

However, the reason Singapore Airlines can afford such high salaries, in relation to the cost of living, is probably beacause they have no minimum wage laws over there.(...or do they?).

So it's probably at the expense on the cleaners, baggage handlers, catering providers, etc.

I am merely speculating...

OSTG It is a serious question-your union proposed an across the board pay cut rather than crew reduction at Heathrow.

Gatwick work with fewer crew already.
Gatwick are paid less already
If the pay cut had been accepted in lieu of fewer crew at Heathrow,
then
Gatwick would be paid even less, and working harder so that the crew at Heathrow can work with higher numbers per flight, and still be earning more than them.
It is not right.

Artic Fox. the thing is that the way Tax system works in France, it is very favourable to earn your salary in the UK in £, but be domiciled in France.

OSTG - I flew SA business class and was attended to by the same person for the flight to Singapore and a different person on the flight to Australia (bearing in mind the hours that were covered I didn't truly think that was unreasonable) I certainly didn't see hoardes of cc in business. However the attitude of cc is completely different to that of BA and that is what I was comparing.

Ah ok. I know a few BA pilots who live in France. Knew there were benefits but wasnt sure exactly what.

So were there any further negotiations between Unite and BA today?

?? The main news is how W Walsh now has support of Ryanairs Michael O Leary who has leased A/C to BA and made even more money.
I am guessing yes there prob are talks going on but the public will not hear about them until they fail or come to an agreement.
For all involved hopefuly they will reach a conclusion that will be acceptable to all sides

No- I think both sides are standing firm.

Sudoku there are no new talks currently scheduled.
UNITE are now talking about not returning to work until staff travel is reinstated.

Can a union do that? really after paying dues to them I would be demanding they be in there talking even while we were on the picket line if I were BA crew That is mad it is like a toddler sulking What does it achieve?
The BA staff [even those not on strike] Have to be stressed out by this strike and worried about what the next pay check balance will be like with out a union saying we not talking without staff travel which is a 'perk' even if you use it to get to work because BA are not responsible for getting you to work on time and I bet they do not pay petrol costs for those who live near their base

I suppose they may see it as getting a bit of dignity back for the strikers.

UNITE are calling for BA to come back to the negotiating table (with staff travel being given back), and at the same time making their demands of what they want known to the media.
BA are standing firm. The company were very clear to the CC before the strike that if they went on strike they would lose travel concessions. They explained this to all employees, I think it will be quite chilly in Hades before they decide to go back on that.

I suspect BA will hold out, lose money and then start making CC redundant.

One theory is that the hardliners who continue to strike will be put on a list and 'locked out' (ie not allowed to work, on full pay) until WW decides the dispute is over. Then they are given their 3 month compulsory redundancy notices. After that 3 months, BA employs new cc on the new T&Cs.

He has been firm about staff travel thing because he knows Unite will try to get it back. That will lead to the dispute being dragged out longer and longer. Which gives the sensible cc time to come back to work and get the fleet back to normal operating.

WW has this well planned out, right down to the last militant standing. He has previous experience, and the backing of his board, the government and the shareholders. BA will win this. And I feel SO sorry for the cc who are allowing themselves to be led to the slaughter by their selfish Bassa reps.

silver snap!

Singapore Airlines is part-owned/financed by the Singapore government so I dont think we can compare salaries/T&Cs with BA, it is not like-for-like.

There have been rumours that CC who went on strike would be suspended = a lockout.
It would be quite legal, when you strike you are in breach of your T&Cs, you can be suspended until the breach has been investigated.
With BA being so busy at the moment that might well be long after the strike has finished.

Another option is to allow the strike to go on for a few more weeks, and then issue 90 days notice of new contracts. Another legal option.

pinkycheesy double snap!

So silver1 and pinkycheesy does that not suggest that this strike could actually be playing into the hands of BA/WW/the board and that cc striking are actually digging their own graves, sorry UNITE are digging them for cc and going to give them a great big heave ho into it? Am now beginning to feel quite sorry for cc with regards to how their union are treating them. Really this strike is playing into Union hands with the biggest losers - those who may well lose their jobs, not the UNITE bigwigs who will go on taking the big bucks home....... this strike just seems to get better and better doesn't it.

I have always felt sorry for the cabin crew in this. I was really worried on Friday night that OSTG would strike-shh don't tell her that though
There have been several offers put to BASSA and UNITE, that were much much better than the recent ones that UNITE talk about, and they were rejected by UNITE before they even went to their members.

A few months ago some Cabin Crew tried to break away from UNITE to deal with BA separately to protect existing T&Cs for CC and they were hounded mercilessly by the UNION, including UNITE setting up a fake web page to divert from their real one it linked to hard core pornography and then later a hot air balloon.
Sadly BA are obliged by t&Cs to deal with UNITE AMICUS BASSA and can recognise no others.
It was at this point that complaints about intimidation began.

Silver - I read about that, a cc member had put together another form of union hadn't she and then was being harassed about it. I agree, so sad that any of them have been brought into strike, with worsening offers, could almost be seen as a warm up for the unions for the train strike too.

I do appreciate the need for the ability to strike and Unions, but I do feel they are now archaic and that the world in general is not the same place, other things have had to change but the Unions don't believe they should. They have no rules and they bully members who don't follow their ways. Frankly I can think of better things to spend my money on than £15 p/m to something that really hasn't been much help!

Doodleydoo You are so suspicious-warm up for the other strikes who would have thought it?

This is what makes this union nasty in my opinion.
I think when you look at what OSTG has said, having peeled back some of her more colourful statements, is that she wants to keep her job, and be on a living wage, and be able to care for her children. UNITE in my mind are not out to help CC achieve this.
It strikes me this has been about flexing muscle for political gain.
Unfortunately the CC union couldn't even sit in a room together with it's own different factions to negotiate with BA.
This is part of what the High Court commented on in December, it was commented that the idea that UNITE is a single union is a sham, and this is one reason why talks never really got anywhere.

Do Virgin cc belong to a union?

Sorry for random questions, but have been following this thread with much interest, and am trying to get my head around the issues...

Seems to me that the problem lies with Unite; the pilots' union managed to negotiate an acceptable deal for them, but Unite has made it worse for the cc.

A lot of these staff joined the company in the 80s/early 90s, have had a wonderful lifestyle and good perks, cushioned from the real world by T&Cs that have been in place forever. Suddenly the company wants to take them away. Your union says "no, they cant, you must strike and they will give in". What is poor cc to do then? I doubt most of them even read the staff emails they get sent from BA, outlining the proposed changes. They blindly follow what their union tells them. And any dissent is dealt with by bullying of a school-yard nature. *sigh

I think that's the thing pinkycheesy whilst on the one hand I feel very sorry for them being manipulated by the union on the other I get frustrated at the lack of desire to inform themselves of what is at stake.

sudoku BASSA is the union that the BA cabin crew join, and BASSA is one of the unions under the big UNITE umbrella. Unite basically help Bassa get what it wants for its members. Sadly, Bassa reps are the aging cc on huge salaries who have the most to lose, and are really only fighting to protect their own cushy jobs.

Virgin cc are also members of Unite. Interestingly I havent seen any statements of support from Virgin cc for BA cc.... maybe because they have no sympathy!

The pilots union, BALPA, successfully negotiated themselves out of a strike a couple of years ago, althought strike action was voted for overwhelmingly by its members. They compromised and made reasonable requests and as a result have a good working relationship with BA.

Thanks pinkycheesy for the clarification!

I have been very ignorant about union issues...

Copy of letter from Senior CC manager to all cc:

Quote:
"You will lose pay. By going on strike you are breaking your contract and the law says BA does not have to pay you for work you miss on account of going on strike.

You will not be paid from the point you do not report for duty up to the point we can reasonably allocate you another duty and you come in for that duty. The withdrawal of pay will include MBT or days off at the end of the duty that you do not report for (unless we are able to re-roster you during the MBT days and you report for work normally).

If you take strike action, are re-rostered your next duty during the second strike period and strike again, this may mean that you are not paid from the first day that you strike until we are able to roster you to work after the second strike."

So, for those who have already been on strike, BA has already stopped their pay, and will not be paying them until 'the point we can reasonably allocate you another duty and you come in for that duty'. The duty will be called by BA, not some now-mythical roster. If cabin crew still don't show for something rostered this coming Saturday to Tuesday (27-30 March) then that is going to be a major slice of pay and allowances - well over a weeks worth. And still, strikers will not be working until BA says so. They might want to reflect very carefully on that.