about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Onestonetogo
Why has this thread degenerated into a personnal attack on people, it is very nasty Yes I know strikes brings out the worst in people but it is making those on strike look petty ill bred and uneducated [not aiming this as a personnal attack on you just my view from media sources so please do not take it that way]
The board are out to save an airline concessions must be made to save jobs not current t&c and calling your boss 'an arrogant greedy pig' is counter productive and will not show you in a good light and not solve any issues or gain public support

Again I know that particular slur on W Walsh is from Union by the plackcards and not dreamed up by you

The board have said that they think WW is doing a fantastic job, whether the strikers agree with that or not does not matter.
I don't like the whole greedy pig idea on placards, it just takes away credibility from the strikers and I find it distasteful.

Buzzybb, I'm saying what I think, not trying to lick your arses for support. I have answered all your questions, even direct offensive accusations, even told you how much flight are paid to us!
I can can Willie Walsh names he deserves!

Oh and you know what, two major "slurs" as you call them that you may have seen in the press have been made by yours truly! So, yes, they have been "dreamed up" by me. Believe it or not I have a brain and tend to use it.

I don't agree strikes bring out the worst in people as you say, btw.

And worse still as Union rep for Aer Lingus Pilots WW get what he wanted, and then as boss of Aer Lingus he got what he wanted
I am afraid with the backing of the board and a history of standing firm it does not look good for CC

Onestoptogo I always assumed you had a brain as you are CC I work within the industry and without people like me doing our job your flts would not be in the air so I do understand maybe better then others that your job is alot more then 'food server/drink maker' The training is complex and comprehensive. What I object to is that you have become obnoxious and mean spirited to those who do not agree with you some of whom are being affected emotionally and financially by your action. You took the job as CC you knew the job you knew the rates You know as well as I do the loss of revenue being suffered by all airlines within the industry you will also know the cuts that have been made by others in your airline and other airlines to keep them afloat. BA is nothing special it does not have a revenue stash that will protect it and therefore your T&C.
Yes calling someone anyone even a person you hate names is bullying and wrong I would not accept it from a child why should we accept it from educated adults about a person in business You need to stop think before you type as you are coming across as mean spirited and petty and I will assume that is behaviour you would not accept from your children

Onestoptogo the tone of my last post was and while I stand by what I said I will apologise for the tone as it was wrong to be so cross and to question what you as a parent would find acceptable that was wrong .
So at this late hr I am saying sorry calling a truce and going to bed
My last word is good luck when you go back to work I hope all goes well

Buzzy- you hit the nail in the head when you say I knew the job and the rates it gets paid when I took it. The rates it paid seemed a fair payment for working very hard, unscociable hours and having your biological clock messed up permanently. What Willie wants to do now, is reducing my wages by 30 to 40%, which would spell the end of my (and my friends') flying career. Any other job will pay more than that. That's not what I signed up for when I took the job, and it makes for more than justified reason for a strike.

No offence taken, btw, I have a thick skin

Sadly it look like this one will run and run until the airline goes bust. The real losers will be the staff who will be unemployed and the shareholders. The rest of us will just keep flying on other airlines and BA will become yet another business school case study on how unions and management between them can wreck a company.

Just to add a different slant to this, I wonder how many people on here know how much of their pensions/ govt pension/ isa share accounts if they have them, is invested in shares? When we discuss share value, many people think of one person buying shares through a broker and selling them on at a profit. We all see it on tv/films and may even know people who do it. However many people do this for groups/pensions schemes etc and these are hard working people who have invested what extra money they have in their future. So this strike isn't just affecting the bigwigs or those going on luxury holidays. If BA goes down it will take pensions, investments and other businesses with it, there may be an argument to say that this was always going to happen due to the financial state of BA, but this will only make the process faster and ensure it to happen by people losing confidence.

I had a conversation with my boss regarding pay freezes etc, he came back with the fact that if you are earning a considerable whack and living the lifestyle that you can afford with those earnings, in the next financial year you will have to earn 1/3 more at least to stay still due to tax increases. Is there any indication that WW or his "cronies" will be earning 1/3rd more than they are currently earning whilst asking BA CC to change their T&C's? All indication is that they too are taking a pay freeze/months off etc and so will be losing far more in the long run.

(Don't get me wrong, some people are paid way way too much and yes I would love to earn some of that money, and no I don't feel sorry for them BUT they too are being cracked down on from the govt!)

But you are missing the pt that I took 40% drop and a change in T&C to help keep the company I work for afloat I also accepted a pay freeze for two years not what I signed up for but that is the current economic climate so after accepting this change [My Dp also took majot hit at his job45% in total losses but 30% in actual loss] I get v cross that others will not look at the big picture and not are willing to help keep jobs and are more then happy to endanger my job and that of my BIL by strike there is a better way.
I know it is not all fun and games at the picket line but the way BA CC are allowing it be reported [not always accuratly] and their behaviour towards others and the company really taints the CC with an air of petty bullying. It would be nice if they could have an open honest public discussion
in the public arena and not all the mud slinging that is going on, as that is not the behaviour most of the BA CC I know and work with want to be assosiated with
Thanks for not taking offence never meant to be offensive but after 15 hrs at work was not thinking straight and never meant to allow things to be said as I said them will not be posting when I am wound up and should be in bed lesson learned

Buzzybb, how much do you earn after you accepted the 40% wage reduction? You said it, you accepted, we don't have to do something just because other people have accepted it? Some people are unfortunate enough to work in sweatshops; do we have to aspire to that to keep a company afloat?
Why do the workers have to pay for the management's incompetence?

I work part-time (as a divorced mother of 2 whose ex won't look after the children I'd find it very hard to work full time, it wouldn't be fair on the children and, anyway, childcare would cost me the entire salary) and cannot live on less than my £900 a month. Do you think I have an extravagant spending life-style? Honestly!

Buzzybb I think a lot of the mudslinging that has been going on is because it seems that it is fine for everyone else to take a pay cut/ payfreeze/ do the same job on different T&C's that they probably didn't sign up for but not for CC. From a laymans pov (i.e nothing to do with the industry but who has been affected by it albeit via family members)it comes across that CC think that they are at the top of the pile and better than everyone else and why should they be affected, when it should be someone else who should give not them.

All the petty slurs against the board of BA and WW are only going to make them come out smelling more of roses than before, there will be no doubt that they will be snapped up straight away into employment by other industries/ companies so it doesn't really work trying to hurt them, by doing that I believe they are just hurting themselves. Especially as in a business environment it has become apparent that what the board are trying to do is rescue a company that needs help NOT actively penalise those who work for it. Whatever anyone wants to say about management, they are there for a reason and the reason is to keep people employed/ the company afloat/ manage the resources at hand, they are the ones that have to make the difficult decisions - or are those on the picket line under the belief that they would run the company in a far more profitable way than WW/ BA board with all their experience? I know in my own company there are things that I would like to change and think would work better, but ultimately I would not want the responsibility of my directors or CEO. I always think of the picture of TB entering downing street and the one of him leaving it - those years at number 10 did nothing for his complexion or the ageing process!

OSTG if you are comparing your job to a sweatshop perhaps it would be in your interest to change careers. I am sorry but I find it very hard to believe you are working in sweatshop conditions.

Besides, posing the question as you don't like management decisions, how would you run the company and what would you expect to be paid for the job that is done? I know it is very easy to believe that the management sit around drinking coffee and eating chocolate hobnobs all day................and not trying to make hard decisions about how to keep the company you work for in a position to keep employing you.

I used to earn £1300 per month for 30 hrs I now earn less then half but have shares 25%in the company but as Doodleydo has said will be worth nothing at the moment [accepted because BA was major contract so company had good staying power] The pay freeze for 2 yrs can and will be reviewed every 6 months and we will get dividens per 1/4 as available. Our Company struggled not because of management incompetence but because of the current climate and we made the choice only senior staff btw not junior they took smaller pat hit and no shares so I currently earn less then you and have bills and a dc etc but at least in my eyes I have a job and as you will be aware in the airline industry they are few and fair between who needs a trainer who can teach both in air and on ground training anyone want to know about load sheets weights and balances? Am V good shamless asking for work and big headedness [is that even a word? don't think so ]

Doodleydoo I forgot about my pension I will have to make a ph call I thik you can be specific about investment type of pensions? or am I wrong tbh t would prefer if they opened a saving account for me and just put the money in there would be happier with poor investment rates than stock market loses off to find pension paperwork

Doodleydo- I'm not. Read my post again.

My managers don't sit around eating biscuits all day, they sit around plotting new ways to screw us over, to drive our wages and service standards to the very bottom, which will spell the end of BA and what it stood for!Allt his, while they still pay themselves ridiculous bonuses and salaries. Willie takes home £70,000 A MONTH. I'm pretty sure that if you put a monkey in his place, the monkey wouldn't be able to harm the company as much as he did! So, ANYONE could do a better job than him at BA.

bUZZYB- 30 hours a month or week? Genuinely curious.

OSTG - if your managers are able to keep BA going after this then I expect they deserve any bonuses they will get. I am sorry but that is their job to keep the company effective in the current climate, they aren't actively trying to screw you over, they are having to do this to everyone. Its called maintaining business.

I pose my question again, what would you do to make BA a more effective company?

A week who would pay me that per month for 30 hrs am good but not that good
Sorry thought I put that down so yes a little over £10 per hr now on less then min wage some weeks but we are building a business I part own now that was the trade off along with owner not taking any wage only expenses for work travel and with dp earning enough for us to manage on [no hols or shopping trips etc] I accepted and yes my choice to keep jobs and company afloat but long term I hope will be the correct and profitable choioce
I guess that is why when all other BA staff including other CC took new deals and T&C ye seem to not be willing to adapt or change seems so wrong

Morning all

If all the striking cc were sacked, they could be easily replaced with people prepared to work hard and accept the reduced T&Cs. This would save BA a lot of labour costs.

Of course, the sacked cc would sue (rightly) for unfair dismissal. Each case has to be presented individually (ie cant do a 'class action'), and each could take as long as two years to reach an outcome. That's a long time to be without money. BA would lose most of the cases and have to make settlements, would cost them a lot.

Amazingly, the above scenario has been costed out by BA and it would be cheaper in the long term for them to sack their striking cc. But they arent. And they still continue to try to negotiate so that their staff stay in their jobs. That sounds like a company you'd want to work for rather than one you want to sink, IMO

Am wrong sorry but unless I do OT I do earn more then min wage that is so sad that people can happily earn so little am
Good on them for having the self respect to do it and be proud to work Wow I know they are kids but some are supporting dc etc on that

Hi pinky

That sounds quite a scary prospect tbh, and that statement alone makes it, again in laymans terms, sound as if BA are trying to do the right thing by everyone.

I couldn't agree more with wanting to be in than out of BA if that is the case.

Buzzubub, you have made a choice based on the prospect of future improvement on your income. And you get weekends off, paid leave, xmas of, banck-holidays off I assume? We don't. And any cut made now, every new imposition, everything we "accept" now will be permanent. No matter how/if BA will become a profitable business agai, we will still PERMANENTLY earning 30 to 40% less than we have been so far. And we don't get any shares or bonuses, btw!

Doodley, what would I do to make BA profitable again and to pull through these difficult times?

• all crew to take a 3% paycut (this has been proposed by Unite but BA said no);

• managers to take a similar paycut;
• reducing middle-management jobs (we have too many, did you know that BA employ people just to sieve the internet, esp facebook and ebay, to sack any crew members to post on facebook status about BA or who sell BA items on ebay?), getting rid of most crew managers (we don't need that many, in our job you don't need to see a manager or even have a manager, unless you're a CSD);
• improving the service we give on board by simply loading on flights what we're supposed to have (it's written on the menu), so we don't have to constantly apologise to our pax for not having the wine or food they were rightfully expecting!
• fixing our entertainment system, whcih will improve pax experience and won't slow down the service, as we're having to constantly stop and try and reset the system to see if it works again, etc;
• reinstate the crew member that has been taken off, at least on the busiest routes, as this adversely affects the service;
• create a culture of recognition, whre crew are rewarded for their hard work, create opportunities for self-improvement and promotion. This will have a knock-down effect,as a happy workforce means happy customers;

Bythe way we have put forward a proposal (INCLUDIN A PAYCUT FOR US) which would save BA £62 million, and they said NO.

To put Pinky's figures into perspective

A CSD earns £55,000, he is sacked after 12 weeks on the picket.
He finds another job at a similar skill level in let's say 6 months (after all these are highly skilled people)
He takes BA to a tribunal
He wins, but his damages are mitigated by actions he has taken on the picket line to perhaps tarnish BA's reputation or harass colleagues.

His salary loss would be 50% of 55k, minus the mitigating factors, plus the compensation element.
He may receive 15-20 thousand including costs for his loss.
No skin off BA's nose, they have saved that and more by sacking him.
They have a new CSD on £29,000 PA. They save the difference in salary costs annually.

OSTG Perhaps the next time you go to Bombay (as it's apparently easier to say than Mumbai) you should take a look in the industrial areas, peek in a sweatshop or two and come back and tell us the similarities your jobs have.