about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Have been reading this thread with interest.

Workers' hard-won rights should not be eroded on the (shaky) pretext of affordability, carrots.

Did you by any chance take maternity leave?

OSTG- can I just say I've been having the odd little lurk on this thread and I think (unless I've missed a chunk) you have done very well to stay on here and patiently fight your corner, when I would have been severely provoked

good luck to you and your colleagues

"It is without doubt a fact that nearly every single person when told that they will be getting a reduction in pay whilst being told they must work harder, for longer and for more hours/days a week, month or year would protest. Whether that be in a 1-2-1 with their managers, at home to their partner, or on mass with other trade union members. "

I would not be at all happy to have this inflicted on me. But I would either accept it (believing that the company needed to do it), or I would leave my job and work somewhere else.

There's a huge difference between complaining to one's partner about it, and attempting (if failing) to blackmail the company. Most people would realise that this was a very odd thing to do to a struggling company. It just makes no sense!

I agree with springheeled... you have tenacity, OSTG- well done.

Out of interest, is there any strike in recent years that has had public support?

I think the will amend their T&Cs in fact as i work with TUs on a daily basis i know that they must have put forward a proposal that will have them changing their T&Cs. I also know that the team at BA must have rejected that proposal as have the TU rejected BAs. This strike is because they can't agree on how best to change the T&Cs not because they won't.

I totally agree that somewhere down the road compromise must be achieved as otherwise the company as you point out won't survive. It is a shame that it is always portrayed as the TUs fault as actually by the time a TU is legally allowed to strike both sides are as much 'at fault' as the other.

For people to want to strike must mean that they feel so strongly as to take the risk that they might lose their jobs. These people have families, houses, etc etc, to take this action would have been a serious decision and one that they clearly would not have taken lightly.

tethers you've picked the wrong person to ask that question of. As it happens, I finished work on Friday, had him on Monday and was back to work 3 weeks later (with him in the office until he was weaned enough at about 9 months to be away from me and go to nursery for a few hours). Clearly not a situation most people could do.

I also paid myself 1 day a week less (while not cutting down my hours) while my staff were on a 4 day week.

The argument you seem to be making is that the company CAN in fact afford to not make the cuts it's made across the board. That's not something that is in doubt actually. If you take a look at their accounts, you'll understand the necessity of making savings to stay in business.

IF it could be proven to you that the company needed to save money, would you feel that it was acceptable to ask the staff to make reductions? If not what other options would you suggest? If, as some people have said, the management is so poor, what other suggestions would you (or anyone) have?

tethersend couldnt agree more! Workers' rights and unions are hugely important. However, the T&Cs that BA want to alter are not 'hard-won' ones, they are working practices that date from the 60s and 70s when the world was a rather different place. Unite is a powerful union and a great one to have on your side when the employer is trying to stitch you up. But that is NOT what BA is doing! They are trying to find the best solution to imminent financial failure and the consequent loss of thousands of jobs. Sadly, Bassa and Unite are not prepared to see the bigger picture, and worse, not prepared to give their members the opportunity to see the bigger picture. Most cabin crew are caught between a rock and a hard place...

my bf works for a large American company. There is- of course- no union recognition.

Due totally to mismanagement they are haemorraging (sp?) money, and my dp and his colleagues have seen their jobs- already demanding- change beyond all recognition, with daily demands for increased productivity from staff, a load of whip cracking, loss of bonuses, pay freezes, and hints-if they express the least bit of reluctance- that they are lucky to be there.

If the company fails, the staff will have nothing, and I have no doubt the bosses will trouser huge sums and then go and fuck up somewhere else.

We wish dp had a union.

Capter, if you follow the thread there's a point where I couldn't help but notice that the posters ganging up against me were all pilots'wives, so I wondered if they were maybe jealous as I spend the nights away with their DHs? I did reassure them that, despite the odd drink at the bar with pilots and crew, I'm not the type of cabin crew who bats her eyelashes at the pilots (there are some like that tho).
I get on well with pilots' wives and families when they travel as passengers (they come on trips where their DH is operating the flight), in fact they often get upgraded in First or Club and have always been very polite to me and often a pleasure to look after (please, ditch the pashminas! They're so 90s! It's all about shawls now!).

I get on very well with female pilots, they often come to the galley when the testosterone in the flight-deck gets too much or they're bored of talking about golf . Sometimes they ask if they can join us stewardesses rather than be left with the male pilot/s, which of course is absolutely fine.

Btw, I have tried to answer the questions gracefully. I never intended to offend or insult, and I hope you can see that!

Carrot, yes, that's what I was saying about pax'wallets.

Pinkfizzle, I sent my manager an email, not a text. No reply as yet, will let you know! I've also sent one to Willie Walsh for good measure . Should be interesting!

Furthermore, one of the reasons that I'm self employed is that I'm just not employable. I'm a woman of childbearing age which means that from a potential employer's perspective, I'm high risk (of taking long term matleave).

Sadly many of the rights we now have simply don't do us any good - an employer simply prefers women who are over CB age (and if you don't think this happens, you're naive).

That said, I'm fully supportive of the maternity time we now have - if not some of the finer details.

carrots, you took three weeks' maternity leave. The right to take any maternity leave and have a job to return to was fought for.

Not great for your 'affordability' though is it?

The point I am making is that if every worker thought like you and failed to fight as their rights, pay and conditions worsened, there would be no option to 'leave and go elsewhere', as the pay and conditions would be as dire everywhere because- yes, you've guessed it- nobody had fought there either. They were just grateful to have a job

Working shouldn't be seen as a privilege.

pinkycheesy well said.

I agree up until today/late last night the exchanges on here were strongly held positions that were exchanged.
However a tongue in cheek idea of mine posted to another poster sent OSTG spiraling into a heap of insults about how everyone on here who is against the strike is a bitter insecure pashmina wearing pilot's wife scared ostg and her pals will shag our husbands down route.
I have faith and trust in my husband down route, I can't comment for anyone else, so OSTG comments are offensive, but what is worse is that yes some pilots fall into bed with cabin crew but surely those wives (if there are any on here and I have no reason to think there are) deserve a bit compassion not goading.

Oi! there was no ganging up against anyone!! we are allowed to have differing opinions about strike action. Resorting to personal insults about jealousy, political affiliation and clothing choices will never win anyone any supporters

Off to bed now for a cuddle with my non golfing DH Goodnight all!

I agree pinky. I spend a lot of my life working towards improving workers' rights in developing countries (via Fairtrade Foundation and similar).

I am all for union support at well, and there's no doubt that there's bad managers/corrupt managers around (and plenty of them). There's also a large number of perfectly good managers who are trying to fix problems which are totally out of their control. Sadly, when things go wrong it's too easy for workers to blame "The Management".

I can assure you OSTG that nothing I have said on this thread stems from any jealousy about you or your fellow stewardesses. Many of my best friends are crew. I am a happily married woman with 2 beautiful children and I would be grateful for my life to carry on as such without the threat of my DH losing his job oh and I have never owned a pashmina just to clear up another one of your sweeping statements.

tethersend I am self employed - there's noone else to do my job - if I didn't do it, noone would get paid. I chose to do it, I wasn't forced by anyone.

I'm fully supportive of maternity rights and as I've said, I spend my day trying to change employment rights (and others) across the developing world.

I am very supportive of a good balance between employers and employees. The "way things were" and the way things are in the US are awful, and I think things are much better now.

BUT you have yet to answer the question of if the money's not there, who pays it? If the company needs to reduce costs to survive, what's it to do? What are the options?

tethersend, I salute you . Pity so many people go along with this "just be grateful you have a job" as if it's all we should aspire to. God forbid we might want to get treated fairly!

Pinkycheesy, goodnight. The pashmina thig, c'mon it's hardly offensive is it? It just props up in my head! When pinkycheesy said she was off to bed, guess what I thought she'd be wearing!

Off for a cup of chocolate.

Intersting debate, but I can give you my perspective from an international agency. We travel all over the world on buinsess. Currently none of us, or any of our clients (major multinationals) would even consider booking business travel on BA. Because of their threats of strike action they are for now OFF THE LIST even for trips months in advance, even in those companies where they were the preferrd carrier. We are all using other airlines and sampling services of the competition that many wouldnt have used before. The BA strikes are severely damaging their relatonships with their profitable business customers and they are gaining a reputation for being unreliable. Personally I am not a big fan of BA, having also had very poor experiences from unhelpful crew when travelling with small children. We are off to the US next week - flying virgin - at least it will take off!!

Incidentally I don't for a minute think that people shouldn't fight for their rights.

I absolutely passionately believe that a fair balance needs to be made and upheld. I don't think I've EVER said otherwise (please quote me?)

Striking by the BA CC is NOT fighting for their rights. It's self destruction.

Also, we just re book and pass the cost on to our clients. It is the families with holidays you are really hurting

"Not great for your 'affordability' though is it?"

I don't understand this?

Elastamum sadly I think you are right, there is strong talk in the profession that the first call to strike saved Virgin from going bankrupt this year as there was a surge of bookings for them.
The aviation market, a lot like the banking field prior to the big folds, is saturated with airlines, only the financially fittest will survive. The leaders will be those who can cost effectively offer a good service or face to passengers. The strike does not allow BA to do that, and will not for a long time. Whether BA can survive long enough for this to happen will in part depend on whether like other groups cabin crew can suck up the need for harder work and belt tightening.

tethers and others, you also seem to assume that it's always us and them. Us V them. That's really sad.

I don't think like that... I would be gutted if I thought my employees thought it too.

There's plenty of employers who really care about their employees.

According to Sky News the BA Board have come out in support of W Walsh and now the Union is calling for talks, hopefully this will be benificial for all

The unions have formally asked BA to go back to the negotiatig table this morning, and BA refused to respond. If they respond and an agreement is reached, then Unite will call off next Sat's strike.
Pressure was mounting for Willie today, as he ignored the Union's invitation for negotiation.

The BA board need to grow a spine and kick that arrogant greedy pig out of our airline.