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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wonder how many people actually understand

194 replies

TheLadyEvenstar · 15/03/2010 11:40

How it feels for the Victim and victims family when a criminal is released or escapes and then reoffends?

I have one hell of a lot of sympathy for James Bulgers family and to some extent understand how she is feeling right now.

1993 little James was murdered, that was also the year i was sexually and violently assaulted, no the 2 were not connected. But one thing that does connect them is Jack Straw made a bad decision on both cases.

He made the final decision on releasing the Bulger killers and also the final decision on moving my attacker from Rampton to Prestwich hospital - the result in both has been awful.

For Denise and her family they had to be notified when these 2 were released, and now that Venables is back inside after commiting another crime - level 4 child pornography - just one less than beastiality and violent pornography/acts.

For myself I was contacted in 2006 to tell me the criminal who attacked me had escaped and was on the loose. Took from November 2006 - March 2007 for him to be caught and then only because he reoffended did that happen.

I know the dread i felt daily and the pain it caused me and my family. Imagine being glad your Dad, in my case, was no longer alive to know he had escaped and that the man who had hurt me was on the loose to do the same to another woman.

Its easy to say, they were children/too young/difunctional family etc but at the end of the day the sympathy should not be with the criminals but the forgotten victims - THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS. Because they will never forget what their child/parent/sibling went through.

OP posts:

pranma · 15/03/2010 11:44

I agree with every word you have said

Mowgli1970 · 15/03/2010 12:06

Me too. I hate it when people talk about the "rights" of the criminals. They gave up those rights when they chose to inflict pain on another person. End of story. I really feel for you. x

2shoes · 15/03/2010 12:08

yanbu

rasputin · 15/03/2010 12:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

TheLadyEvenstar · 15/03/2010 12:12

It really infuriates me tbh, IMHO no criminal deserves the amount of time and effort put in to giving them a new identity.

Before anyone says but they were children- yes they were however i believe at 10yrs old they knew what they were doing hence why they hid that poor baby under bricks.

They don't deserve a new identity at all.

Those who think they do, i wonder would you feel the same if say Ian Huntly was released and given one?

Their crimes are the same murder of smaller defensless people.

OP posts:

Scardypants · 15/03/2010 12:16

YANBU

Until they have lived directly in the wake of a vicious crime they will never understand.

lizziemun · 15/03/2010 12:18

YANBU.

I was told I had to feel sorry for the 3 men who car jacked me, as I had had a better life then they did.

Rhubarb · 15/03/2010 12:20

I hope the posters on those threads read this, I really do. Because you are quite right, unless you or someone you loves are a victim of these crimes, you will never know how it feels to be criticised and analysed on an internet thread as if you were somehow to blame.

Why people are only all to willing to find fault with the victims is beyond me. But it seems that if the victims speak out, they are criticised for not letting it drop and getting on with their lives. If they don't speak out they are criticised for not doing enough to protect other potential victims.

I hope you are on the way to being healed. It sounds horrendous and I'm so sorry that these threads are bringing back horrible memories for you.

Original poster

TheLadyEvenstar · 15/03/2010 12:28

Rhubarb, if i am honest it is not so much the bringing back of memories as much as the frustration of people feeling so much sympathy for someone who has taken somoeone elses life, to an extent all victims of crime have their life taken in some way. Whether that be they are fearful of going out in the night, or losing their life completely.

If crime such as murder deserves a new identity enabling the murderer to live their life unknown for their crimes why doesn't something such as stealing a car which you will have to face the demons of? iyswim?

both are crimes 1 is worse than the other and the worst one enables the murderer to have a fresh start without worrying about getting a job etc because of their criminal past.

OP posts:

Bessie123 · 15/03/2010 12:31

Of course you are right, what happened to you sounds horrific and what happened to james bulger is truly terrible. But I still do not think you can expect a 10 year old child to take responsibility for something he has done as a child for the rest of his life. Although those boys must have known what they were doing was wrong, you must accept that it is not fair for them to pay for what they did as 10 year olds for ever. Think of the 10 year olds you know, think of the grown adults you know; surely there is a difference in comprehension between them and a difference in the ability to understand and take responsibility. And there must be a difference in what you would expect them to take the consequences for in the long run.

Denise Fergus, while she suffered the most awful loss imaginable, doesn't really know anything about this. I don't think she is qualified to talk about where children should be tried and I don't think her comments are helpful. There is a difference between feeling great sympathy for her and thinking that what she says is considered and informed.

Rockbird · 15/03/2010 12:32

I have thought that a lot since this all came out again. That it is a very bad situation when the offender is given more consideration and gently gently handling than the victim/victim's family. There's something very wrong with that.

runnybottom · 15/03/2010 12:33

YANBU.
But there is sympathy enough to go around. Because I feel sorry for the wasted lives of 2 boys as well does not mean I don't feel for the families of teh victims as well.

Ivykaty44 · 15/03/2010 12:39

I have no idea how it feels to be the victim, have not been there.

what I do not like is when another tells how his son killed in a terrorist bombing antoher father that has lost a child through illness that his loss is worse - and yes I have seen that happen

ShowOfHands · 15/03/2010 12:40

I am so sorry for your experience.

There are undoubtedly many problems with the way crime is handled in this country and with that I will not argue. But I will just point out that it's not a dichotomy. In having sympathy for the 10yr old perpetrators of an atrocious crime, I do not forego sympathy for the families affected by the crime.

Veritythebrave · 15/03/2010 12:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ooojimaflip · 15/03/2010 12:47

The issue is the lack of consensus about what the Justice System is for. I think that it should be about reducing the crime - and nothing else.

The victims need a support, and they need their desire for revenge to be taken seriously, but that is not for the police or courts to do.

Original poster

TheLadyEvenstar · 15/03/2010 12:50

its not about revenge it is about justice being done.

I just asked a question on another forum where i have posted this and the question was..

for those who feel they needed the new identity would you feel the same if a10yr old had mugged your 86yr old grandmother and through fear/shock she died. they would have contributed to her death.

if a 10yr old stole a car and went joyriding in the process knocked down and killed a child would they deserve a new identity?

OP posts:

Bessie123 · 15/03/2010 12:54

Ladyevenstar yes, I think they probably should have a new identity. Did you read my previous post?

mayorquimby · 15/03/2010 12:54

in that situation a 10 year old wouldn't need a new identity because the press wouldn't be allowed to report their names and so they wouldn't be identified. It is also very unlikely that a threat would be placed on the 10 year olds life to the point where they'd need a new identity for those crimes.
And most certainly they would not be tried as adults for those crimes.

harimosmummy · 15/03/2010 12:56

I think what is hardest is that the protection of these criminals (for that IS what they are) really has more to do with protecting the decisions made by policitions.

These two criminals (again That is what they are) should never have been released.

I don't give a shit that they didn't understand an adult prosecution system. If anything, that makes it all the worse. I remember, quite clearly, a palable relief in Merseyside when jamie Bulger was seen with two kids - because it was felt that two kids wouldn't have been able to cause such devasation.

The fact that they could means that they shouldn't ever have been released.

Should they have to pay for their crime for the rest of their lives? YES they damn well should.

harimosmummy · 15/03/2010 12:58

I don't think any criminal deserves a new indentity.

My own personal view.

ooojimaflip · 15/03/2010 12:58

TheLadyEvenStar - that's my point - it shouldn't be about the victims feelings. It shouldn't be about anybodies feelings. It should be about what policy should the state follow to reduce the incidence of crime.

If giving serious child offenders reduces the crime rate, that is what should be done - but no-one is making these arguments as the Justice System is being asked to fullfill to many disparate aims.

Veritythebrave · 15/03/2010 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ooojimaflip · 15/03/2010 13:00

harimosmummy- that's an awfully expensive way to run a justice system, an an awfully unforgiving one as it removes the opportunity for an offender to make amends to society.

Taking my narrow view of the purposes of the justice system, that would be effective, but probably not affordable.

Original poster

TheLadyEvenstar · 15/03/2010 13:04

harimosmummy

I agree with you 100000%

OP posts:

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