To wonder how many people actually understand

[TheLadyEvenstar]

How it feels for the Victim and victims family when a criminal is released or escapes and then reoffends?

I have one hell of a lot of sympathy for James Bulgers family and to some extent understand how she is feeling right now.

1993 little James was murdered, that was also the year i was sexually and violently assaulted, no the 2 were not connected. But one thing that does connect them is Jack Straw made a bad decision on both cases.

He made the final decision on releasing the Bulger killers and also the final decision on moving my attacker from Rampton to Prestwich hospital - the result in both has been awful.

For Denise and her family they had to be notified when these 2 were released, and now that Venables is back inside after commiting another crime - level 4 child pornography - just one less than beastiality and violent pornography/acts.

For myself I was contacted in 2006 to tell me the criminal who attacked me had escaped and was on the loose. Took from November 2006 - March 2007 for him to be caught and then only because he reoffended did that happen.

I know the dread i felt daily and the pain it caused me and my family. Imagine being glad your Dad, in my case, was no longer alive to know he had escaped and that the man who had hurt me was on the loose to do the same to another woman.

Its easy to say, they were children/too young/difunctional family etc but at the end of the day the sympathy should not be with the criminals but the forgotten victims - THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS. Because they will never forget what their child/parent/sibling went through.

OK, Bessie - I hope nothing like this ever happens to you.

you just might change your view,

Or maybe you will feel the person who has caused you so much heartache really DOES desrve more money / consideration than you do.

Time will tell. I hope you are never in that position.

What on earth are you shouting for?

We do know how many reoffend, the stats are available.
What we are not party to is what the offence is if a person released on licence is recalled to prison.

And I hope you feel the same when it's your son that won't be rehabilitated on the basis of being dead.

NormalityBites Mon 15-Mar-10 13:29:07
YANBU.

Only thing I have to add is the other forgotten (really forgotten) victims. The innocent families of the offenders who forever have to live under a cloud of hate and suspicion for something that they did not do or have any hand in.

Just need to ask...why do so many people say it was upbringing that caused this if the families had no hand in it.

theLadyEvenStar - You have my support.

But ladyevenstar do you think vigilantes are a good idea? Because not giving them new identities would guarantee vigilantes.

Noone is saying that they are saints (quite the oppposite!)

We know what happened, why did you feel the need to post that?

harimosmummy what a charming post.

You do not make any sense at all.

And that bit about possibly sexually assualting him is bollocks. I'm reporting that post, it's no better than the crappy facebook statuses everyone is always complaining about.

Really? So if your son was tortured and murdered you would still feel those responsible should be left to live full and productive lives?

CROCK OF SHIT.

You are talking about something you know nothing about.

harimo, okay we'll do it your way, we'll reduce a discussion of human psychology and rehabilitation down to dogs. Your dog, presumably, is cared for, loved, appropriately exercised, clean, fed well, disciplined, trained, enjoyed and appropriately supervised?

Would you expect a dog who is beaten, tortured, humiliated, malnourished and neglected to be the same dog as the one you own?

Do you imagine for one minute that a child capable of atrocious acts has been brought up in a normal framework? Had those boys not committed that crime but you had heard about the life that they had endured in their 10yrs on this planet, would you have sympathised then? Would society have failed them? Can you understand that the acts we carry out as humans are as a consequence of what we consider normal, of the examples that we have seen throughout our lives? That sometimes a cry for help is through a desperate act?

Rehabilitation at its most basic level when we're talking about a child, is the chance to offer them something of which they were deprived from birth. You take away their freedom for life, you achieve nothing. You rehabilitate then you make small reparations to the black holes of society.

LadyEvenStar - I don't understand this idea of deserving on not deserving rehabilitation. For me, it's not about them, but about their effect on others. If rehabiliting offenders means that less offenders reoffend then we should so that.

Don't be ridiculous. Nobody has said that if their son was murdered they would want the murderers to live productive lives.

What I have said is that you cannot expect a 10 year old to bear the same responsibility for his actions as you would expect an adult to. It is a very simple argument, I don't know why you can't understand it.

OK, ShowofHands - Prosecute the parents. THEN I will entertain rehabilitation of hte child.

Interesting how so many people know what crime he is supposed to have committed when no details have been released

I feel desparately sorry for the victims of violent crime and do understand why they want revenge - I know I would if I was in that position.

But the legal system of this country is not supposed to act as the agent of any one individual or minority group, but to uphold a fair and safe society.

Re: these children being 'monsters' and 'freaks', incapable of reform - anyone who is aware of the existence of genocide knows that in the 'right' conditions large numbers of ordinary people are capable of taking part in acts of extreme cruelty - including the rape and murder of children. Most people involved in genocide go on to lead ordinary lives afterwards. Cruelty and sadism is something that many people are capable of - it's in our natures. But most of us are lucky enough not to encounter the conditions that allow expression of it, or we have had upbringings that enable us to rise above base cruelty.

how is prosecuting the parents going to affect the rehabilitation of the child? You do not make any sense at all.

harimosmummy Do you have personal experience then? What makes your opinion more valid than any others?

Bessie because that's life.

Do you really think there is some half way ground where it's OK to commit muder but not expect any repurcussions?

is there really?

I think this thread illustrates pretty well why we have a justice system.

OK, let's bring this back to dog again:

If a vicious dog attacked your innocent child who would you hold responsible?

Err... the fucking owner.

right... so let's change the dog for a child (who we assume to have more intelligent than a dog). Child commits violent crime.

We don't feel we can assume child is responsible.

We don't feel adult is responsible.

OH FUCK!

TLES, the posting of details, real and imagined, of the particular crime is completely out of order.

harimo, it would be nice to actually have a discussion about this with you but your shouting, swearing and hyperbolic/analagous descriptions aren't debate, they're knee jerk reactions to the facts of a crime.

Completely agree LadyBiscuit - perhaps he nicked a mars bar...

I think he was given a chance and for a reason none of us know he's back in prison. And I don't think any of use deserve to know what he's done or what name he was using - not necessarily to protect him but to prevent what could happen as a result of divulging those details.