to be bemused by people who blame their appalling behaviour on a medical condition that sounds remarkably convenient

[Desdamona]

I wanted to post on a thread that someone else started a few weeks ago, but I can't find it. I have just been listening to Women's Hour. A woman in her twenties appears to have made a good living out of fleecing fiances and wants her personality disorder to be taken into account. What is the difference between having a personality disorder and being a bit of a shit who happened to get caught? How long have these convenient personality disorders been around as a defence for, er, crime?

And what is the difference between an alcoholic and someone who refused to exercise any self-control? If someone is overweight, they are judged to be unable or reluctant to deny themselves pleasure. Why do we get all understanding as soon as the (twit) claims they have a (made up) medical handle. It's not a disease. There is no proof it is a disease. There may be a genetic tendency but don't turn it into a disease. The disease theory is based on the replies to under 100 questionnaires.

I had a bf who claimed to be alcoholic. Just got drunk when he liked and, ooh, aren't you brave, telling all your drunk mates about it?

Personality disorder: Don't get me started.

time to change and young minds both useful campaigns

a lot more open discussion and acknowledgement about illnesses such as pnd nicole appleton
gail porter
brooke shields
gwyneth paltrow
have all spoken publicly about pnd

pd is a lot more misunderstood and vilified

biggest battle in mental health is stigma

Psychiatric illnesses exist, disorders affecting behaviours exist

Yes I am qualified to confirm that, both pracctically (work and parenthood) and academically

May I refer you to the DSM criteria, search DSM-IV although dsm-V due out in next 18 months or so. Also have a gander at the ICD-10.

becuase you know, these things are documented and researched and standards of diagnosis exist.

Which doesn't mean everyone who does bad things has a disorder, or that its never used as an excuse, but blaming the people with the disorder for those who don't is Wrong.

And YY to anti-psychiatry as a aterm for Laing et al.

Just as example Desdamona, did you know that in some countries Autism is calssed as psychiatric and treatable by psychoanalytic input? Which goes really to show that the area is varied, complex and simply can't be written off by dint of a special on Woman's Hour.

Good for you skihorse! Takes guts to out yourself in this climate (with no offence intended to any namechangers)

Is it time to change the way that we administer justice, because it seems to me now that most criminal behaviour is attributed in certain extent to mental illness, whether is the emotional scars of bad parenting to psychopathy.

So... if every one who perpetrates a crime can, in most occassions, rightly attribute it to mental health, is it about time there is a reform on how people are judged? It seems to me that we ALL are "patched" in one way or another and the old concept of evil for evil's sake no longer applies. We know far more of human behaviour now than in olden times.

most people proceeding through criminal justice have no psychiatric issue at all. criminal receiving penal sentence most likely from socio-economically deprived background,poor educational attainment but not necessarily mental health profile.However mental health can be a factor in becoming involved in crime

court diversion and police/nhs would try to assess and become aware of vulnerable prisoners with mental health issues

They do try SM but so many still get missed- I was given some ridiculous stats about LD in prisoners by the SLT team recently, i didnt ahve a pen with me so coudln't note them but they were pathetically high. And none of them were receving input.

Which doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished, but that their chances of being rehabilitated are far lower than if they received the correct input and approach.

I heard a psychologist say once that people with personality disorders often didn't have their basic needs met as a baby / toddler.

I assumed he meant emotional needs. Maybe physical ones too?

"It reminds me of Peter Sutcliffe. Got caught. Pleaded madness."

I work with Forensic Mental Health Care, nursing women with mental health problems who have found themselves within the criminal justice system. The above sentence makes it all sound so simplistic. It isn't.

Its incredibly hard for anyone with a mental illness to get a hospital order, most end up in prison, completely inappropriately placed without the necessary treatment and therapies they need in order to be completely rehabilitated.

I could write more about this but tbh, cannot be arsed as I find myself repeating the same stuff over and over again on here.

to insert a completely tangential, bizarre and light-hearted point in here (and in no way to diss the posters above who know a lot about psychiatric science), am currently reading 'Daimonic Reality' by Patrick Harpur which talks a lot about things like Jung and how ancient mythology might be seen as the psychology of its day, and vice versa... archetypes of the collective unconscious etc etc. not really on topic but interesting!

this notion that it is easy to fake a diagnostic presentation to get off is misplaced.reported symptoms alone doesnt cut it

let me give you an example

chancer claim hear voices please can you admit me to cushy hospital so i dont have to go to prison

the assessment would be the frequency,intensity,quantity,gender,content of voices.and observable response to voices.

isnt as easy as saying i am mad i am

They tuck you up, your mum and dad
They read you Peter Rabbit too
They give you all the quilts they have
And add some pillows just for you.

They were tucked up, they were small
(Pink perfume, blue tobacco smoke)
By those whose kiss healed any fall
Whose laughter doubled any joke.

Man hands on happiness to man
It shines out like a sweetshop shelf
So love your parents all you can
And have some cheerful kids yourself.

I read yesterday in one of the broadsheets (times?) that 6 out of 10 people will suffer from mental illness at some point in their lives. Could that be true? How many people are employed by this growing sector? Is their a whiff of job creation going on? Why does client state pop into my head?

oft cited stats is 1 in 4 will at sometime suffer a mental illness

mental illness is a diverse range and spectrum ranging from a reactive depression which resolves to a longer term illness which an individual may experience over number of years

so severity and range of mental illness will vary from person to person.as will propensity and likelihood eg socio-economic factors and family history

my ex husband has been diagnosed with a personality disorder. diagnosed by a psychiatrist who said his mothers abuse of him was most likely the cause.....not his fault then....he loved that,getting a diagnosis with a person to BLAME. his mother is long dead,so even easier

so he's now off on a bender....he's dropped off probation services radar and is on licence for affray(immitation firearms offence)

i cant get it out of my head he's on his way to 'get' me....he's just lost the court case for any acess to our dc's...

personality disorder affects people dfferently,i'm bloody scared of him,but its him,not every other sufferer,who i blame!!

he doesnt WANT to help himself,thats the difference

But, sm, we are one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. What is the matter that most of us are suffering from a mental illness at some time? What does that say about having regular electricity and working sewage systems? Would we be happier without?It doesn't make sense. Should people who don't suffer from a mental ilness enjoy any privileges as a minority? The deserving sane?

pd still responsible for actions and behaviours. yes neglectful and emotionally absent childhoods are suggested as causal but that is not same as exonerating subsequent adult behaviours

one cannot receive a diagnosis and legitimately think can do anything without repercussions

"the deserving sane".what an illiberal post.the biggest hurdle in mental health is bigoted bile.much like deserving sane argument

hope you never experience such stigma,thing is maybe some friends/family/collegues. have experienced mental illness and you dont know

"Should people who don't suffer from a mental ilness enjoy any privileges as a minority? The deserving sane?"

Ugh. Honestly cannot remember the last time I read something on here that has made me swear at my laptop.

Good luck to you and your 'sane' mind. I hope from the very pit of my heart that you never get a mental illness. Honestly.

I don't believe in Father Christmas either I'm afraid.

You don't beleive in father christmas? Are you some sort of nutter?

No me neither. Perhaps we will both go to hell.

gwyneth paltrow,
nicole appleton,
Stephen fry,
robbie williams,
john nash,
brooke shields,
gail porter
all successful in their chosen fields all have had a mental illness

all went public to discuss stigmatisation and discrimination.which manifests as the undeserving mad etc

"But, sm, we are one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. What is the matter that most of us are suffering from a mental illness at some time? What does that say about having regular electricity and working sewage systems? Would we be happier without?"

Maybe you want to look into how much diagnosis goes on in less developed countries, and how many mental health issues are written off as something else, usually not for the benefit of the suifferer.

Also, as for rewards for not being mentally ill, I'd say the reward is not being mentally ill, it's hardly fun.

philidelphia it's like saying, "Should people who don't suffer from cancer enjoy any privileges as a minority? The deserving healthy?"