to be bemused by people who blame their appalling behaviour on a medical condition that sounds remarkably convenient

[Desdamona]

I wanted to post on a thread that someone else started a few weeks ago, but I can't find it. I have just been listening to Women's Hour. A woman in her twenties appears to have made a good living out of fleecing fiances and wants her personality disorder to be taken into account. What is the difference between having a personality disorder and being a bit of a shit who happened to get caught? How long have these convenient personality disorders been around as a defence for, er, crime?

And what is the difference between an alcoholic and someone who refused to exercise any self-control? If someone is overweight, they are judged to be unable or reluctant to deny themselves pleasure. Why do we get all understanding as soon as the (twit) claims they have a (made up) medical handle. It's not a disease. There is no proof it is a disease. There may be a genetic tendency but don't turn it into a disease. The disease theory is based on the replies to under 100 questionnaires.

I had a bf who claimed to be alcoholic. Just got drunk when he liked and, ooh, aren't you brave, telling all your drunk mates about it?

Personality disorder: Don't get me started.

Maybe she just means that some people claim to have a personality disorder when they don't really in order to excuse shoddy behaviour, not that personality disorders don't exist or that people don't genuinely suffer as a result.

I should think Genghis Khan was breastfed for a long time, as in Mongolia extended bf till 6 or 7 is the norm and seen as a v good thing...

Would a diagnosis of bpd or alcoholism be grounds for divorce? Especially if pd spouse tried to cover it up before the marriage?

Peter Sutcliffe has diagnosois of paranoid schizophrenia, not pd.he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and was experiencing command hallucinations when he committed the murders. he is in broadmoor being treated with schizophrenic medication

@purplejennyrose

Although the OP was bizarrely presented, there is a school of thought that the way in which Psychology and Psychiatry have developed many of the concepts and categories on which they depend, is actually simply a product of cultural context and the history of the term itself.

Critical Psychologists such as Danziger do question the validity of many of the accepted constructs within Psychology, and therefore the OP does have a point. IMO We should not just blindly accept psychological categorisations, and there are very persuasive arguments within Critical Psychology as to why we should question some of the categories in Psychology.

Lady Blah. Wow. Did you write that off the top of your head?

had op put a cogent argument and not some disjointed "i had a bf who was a right git a right bad un" then maybe would be afforded more attention

but she didn't

I agree that we live in an era of total over medicalisation.
I am aware though, that any questioning of mental illness/ behavioural diagnosis is extremely unpopular on Mumsnet.

Try and read Prof Thomas Szasz, makes much sense imvho, particularly with reference to criminal defence involving mental illness.

Ladybla, are we all not a product of cultural context?

Where and how you live and life experiences is what makes us all what we are today. I thought the whole point of a disorder, is that you are unable to experience these things in the same way as someone without a disorder. Thats what makes it a disorder?

Not heard of that one Crack, will have a look. Tis true about questioning of mental illness being unpopular - think its the same everywhere.

I agree we are all products of culture however many of these disorders are not presented also as products of our culture, indeed they are presented as hard scientific fact, however IMO this is far from the reality for many disorders.

Agree with SM; it's always important to question and think critically, but questioning isn't the same as dismissing out of hand after listening to woman's hour.

Puff, this is a difficult one... although I admit that mental disorders should be taken in consideration when administering justice to an individual who has committed a crime, I don't think that pointing what the medical problem is is just in order to reduce the sentence, but to find out the also how rehabilitation of such individual should be tackled, ie.

Medication and therapy will do more for an individual, who committed a crime due to a personality disorder, than years and years in jail. However, the prisons have a more proven and tested system to maintain the public safe, which at the end of the day, is the main and basic objective of running a judiciary system.

I welcome the psychiatric rehabilitation route wholeheartedly, as long as we can be ensured that there are adequate mechanisms to maintain the safety of the public around such individual while their rehabilitation is taking place. Unfortunately, it seems that this is a route of trial and error, and also a very expensive one where mistakes often occur.

I thought that is what makes a disorder, a disorder the fact that there is no 'physical' evidence or known 'cause'?

if anti-psychiatry your interest

1. Cooper, D., Psychiatry and Anti-Psychiatry, London. Tavistock, 1967.
2. Szasz.T., The Myth of Mental Illness, London, Paladin, 1972.
3. Foucault, M., Madness and Civilization, New York, Pantheon, 1965.
4. Laing, RD., The Divided Self, Harmondsworth, Penguin, 1960.
5. Laing, RD., The Politics of Experience, Harmondsworth, Penguin, 1967.
6. Johnstone L (2000) Users and abusers of psychiatry: a critical look at psychiatric practice. (Second edition) Routledge: London
7. critical psychiatry webpage

Szasz,laing pretty seminal and was radical at the time.cooper et al too.the ideas were hugely influential

Yup. My severe depression is a myth.

thanks Mr Szasz!

Szasz didnt deny the individual pt experience he did dispute the interpretation and labelling, and treatments methods (esp medications).so in essence asserted pt experience is what pt say it is, but that the labelling and construct of depression is a constricting stigmatising label.i agree with parts of szasz but not wholly.modern psychiatry and mental health is trying to be more inclusive and promote the individual and the recovery movement.the rise of user involvement and expert patient are examples of this

but plenty work to be done

Thank you for the references.

To add to what sm said, Szasz not really anti psychiatry as much as anti coersive treatment.

Not to deny your feelings of depression as much as to give you ownership of them.

well indeed szasz is a psychiatrist but the oft used term for Szasz,laing et al was the anti psychiatry movement

My father is a recovered alcoholic who would be dead if he was still drinking today. Throughout my teens I struggled that this behaviour was attributable to "mental illness" and always thought that it was a matter of choice: you drink or you don't. Its not like cancer where you have no control over your illness.

I had to have a LOT of counselling to finally understand that alcoholism, annorexia and other such disorders are true illnesses. Why on earth would people drink or starve themselves to death, in front of their loved ones, unless they had a serious chemical imbalance in their brains! It is not a case of pull yourself together.

There is also a BIG difference between your mate who has too many drinks down the pub and readily claims to be an "alcoholic" and someone who cannot function without alcohol, who drinks despite anti alcohol abuse pills, rehab, AA etc and who is told that they will die unless they stop but still carries on. That is mental illness.

I want to hear more from Borderliner now. I'd love to know:
How you were diagnosed
If the diagnosis came as a relief
What difference it has made.

IMO We need to hear more about people who manage to function perfectly well with conditions that are stigmatised in society, such as BPD.

Should say "I struggled to accept that his behaviour..."

madameovary I have written on these boards extensively about my experiences, diagnosis, treatment and freedom (now) from diagnosis (BPD).

I function as well as anyone else does these days...