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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to get rid of our dog who has bitten our son?

169 replies

paulaplumpbottom · 06/03/2010 19:46

We have a 5 year old springer spaniel. He has always been the most gentle dog you can imagine and we all adore him. He has always been especially good with children and he has never shown any signs of aggression.

On Wed night my 20 month old son and I were sitting on the floor with the dog. My son was patting him very lightly on the head. This has been a very common occurance and our dog has always been very happy and relaxed before. My dog suddenly turned and aggressivly bit my son on the forhead. My son was fine and it did not break the skin.He did cry but was fine a minute later and I spoke to a doctor who said he would be fine. I then called my MIL who came and got my dog.

My husband was away on business and was not there to witness the attack. When I described the situation to him he said that I must be mistaken and that our dog was so placid that he would never do anything aggressive.This was also my MIL's reaction. I have been very furious because I feel that what I saw was a very aggressive attack and I am hurt that my judgement is being called into question. I no longer want the dog around the children. I have told my husband that he is never to be around our children again and that I want no legal responsibilty for him. My husband wants him back home but kept outside. My children and their friends play outside and I feel that it would be impossible to ensure that he would never come into unsupervised contact with him.
My Dh and MIL think i am being completely unreasonable. Am I?

OP posts:
Vallhala · 06/03/2010 23:05

muppetgirl, the RSPCA will take in an aggressive dog... and then kill it.

I do not work and never will work for or alongside the RSPCA, partly for this reason.

The Dogs Trust cherrypick and are quite selective in what they take- not a great deal of old, disabled or SBT type dogs there.

Some of the rescues I work alongside take on the dogs that no other bugger will have. That includes "aggressive" dogs. Because I have so many contacts nationwide, because I know the requirements and fortes of so many of them I can often help place dogs into rescue.

But lets get this straight... it doesn't matter in this case who will or won't take in an aggressive dog... because THIS IS NOT AN AGGRESSIVE DOG!

rotool · 06/03/2010 23:10

dark and stormy...you cannot reason with a dog like you can a child.
You cannot be sure if a dog understands that what it has done is wrong like you can a child.
a child cannot do anywhere near as much damage to another child like a dog can to a child.
is it hard to understand why some people are ' down on dogs' now???

Fluffyone · 06/03/2010 23:10

We're not talking about a toddler. We are talking about a dog. Toddlers and dogs operate by different rules, and you can't explain things to a dog the same way you can a toddler.
This said it all for me:
"On Wed night my 20 month old son and I were sitting on the floor with the dog. My son was patting him very lightly on the head."
The little boy was being supervised by his mum, the incident need never have happened. I agree with others that one nip under provocation does not make an aggressive dog.
Having said all of that... Springers are very active dogs, bred to work. They aren't ideal house pets. Anyone who's watched Dog Borstal might realise that being let loose in a field to run about, and chase a ball a bit, isn't really enough for them. They need mental stimulation, which is why they excel at agility, and are great working dogs, drug dogs, hearing dogs etc. So, I'd rehome him and everyone can relax. Contact the organisation I linked to earlier, ask if they can help in NI. I doubt very much they will reject him as "aggressive", I suspect this will be a familiar sad story.

Nancy10 · 06/03/2010 23:10

This is really difficult. We have the most loveliest dog who is brilliant with kids. All except one. My best friend has a 2 year old ds and I can honestly say my dog hates him. He constantly chases her around and is very heavy handed. My dog usually gets up and goes outside when he's about. (She's small enough to squeeze in and out the cat flap.) She has also growled at him on numerous occasions. Meanwhile my friend takes absolutely no notice. I know a 2 yr old doesn't understand, but they need to learn. I keep the two of them completely separate and have started saying a firm 'No' to her ds. Children need to learn from an early age that ALL dogs bite! To allow your child to mistreat or annoy any dog is very irresponsible of the childs parents. And to assume your dog will never bite is just as irresponsible! All dogs are unpredictable and if you allow your child to pull your dog about/pat it etc They will think ALL dogs are happy for them to do this!

Nancy10 · 06/03/2010 23:12

I agree Fluffyone, Springer Spaniels are incredibly lively and have alot of energy. Maybe he is just unsuitable for you! I don't think he's dangerous!

darkandstormy · 06/03/2010 23:13

rotool think of the bulger case say.....

rotool · 06/03/2010 23:15

Nancy10 I didn't think the dog that savaged my 5 year olds face was dangerous untill he attacked. Surley this dog is giving a warning sign, warning signs mean exactly that so who knows what it will do next. It may never ever show aggression again but would you take the risk?

Vallhala · 06/03/2010 23:16

Paula, I've just had it pointed out to me by Fluffy's post (cheers!) that you're in Northern Ireland.

I do have contacts there as well as one of the best, most pro-active rescuers and animal rights campaigner going in the Republic (Dublin), so as I said, please do shout if I can help.

Assuming that is that you're unwilling or unable to change your outlook towards your dog and your expectations of him and your DS and give the dog the chance he deserves....

rotool · 06/03/2010 23:17

dark and stormy, do we know why the lad in the Bulger case is back in custody? I rest my case.

jellybeans · 06/03/2010 23:21

I'm not sure but obviously the child comes first. We had (when I was growing up) a lively labrador and she once bit my arm (in lively play) and it really bled but after that she never did it again and was a lovely pet for 14 yrs. I told my parents that she scratched me so they never knew she actually bit.

darkandstormy · 06/03/2010 23:21

rotool anyway we are not on the subject of those scumbags they are oceans away from what we are talking about now.They really should have been put to sleep years ago.End of story imo.

rotool · 06/03/2010 23:24

hey darkandstormy hold on a mo.. you mentioned it not I

onebadbaby · 06/03/2010 23:26

Our cat bites if tickled under the chin- we have told our dd not to do this, but she still does and we think it is her fault if she gets bitten. (Admittedly the cat is not as strong as a dog and is unlikely to cause serious harm). Living with an animal is about learning tolerance and respect.

I certainly wouldn't keep an animal that I thought was capable of serious injury to my child. It is up to you to determine whether your child is at risk, and that will depend upon the age of your child, breed of dog and it's history.

Nancy10 · 06/03/2010 23:28

rotool, I'm not saying whether they should keep the dog or not. It's their decision to make. What I'm saying is, is ALL dogs are potentially dangerous to children!!

Kewcumber · 06/03/2010 23:32

We don;t have enough information here to know whetehr the dog is aggressive or not, will continue this kind of behaviour or not, was provoked by OP's son or not. Being so prescriptive (pro or anti) without actually knowing the people/animal involved is a bit odd (IMVHO!).

We used to have a cocker spaniel who was the lovelist dog you will ever come across... except massiveloy proprietorial with my mum. You couldn;t kiss her with the dog around without the dog growling and getting quite nasty. But we were all much older and well able to not get bitten and take avoiding action if necessary. Much harder to do with a 20 month old.

And when a toddler was biting my DS I would separate my toddler and keep him safe sS take a dim view of putting toddler to sleep for something that they mostly grow out of. Very odd analogy.

rotool · 06/03/2010 23:36

sorry nancy10 ,you said earlier in text that you didn't think the dog was dangerous did you not? just unsuitable.

Maleeka · 06/03/2010 23:36

Get rid!, you'd always be treading around on eggshells around this dog and constantly watching it to see if it felt like "nipping" another child.

I couldnt live my life that way tbh, its enough work making sure that a toddler is safe, let along having to ensure that your dog isnt going to attack again.

darkandstormy · 06/03/2010 23:43

what about all women with pmt around small children get rid of them too, alleviate potential harm to small children. risk assesment to the highest degree. Get real this is a springer spaniel not a bengal iger.this question aimed at maleeka by the way.

MillyR · 06/03/2010 23:48

I have 2 children and 2 Springers. Springers need to be walked by a person for 1-2 hours a day, not 'given the run of the fields.'

Rehome your Springer, and don't get another dog.

ScreaminEagle · 07/03/2010 01:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SpiritualKnot · 07/03/2010 02:43

You are not being unreasonable.

We have a lovely border collie but can't trust her around people as she is a little unpredictable. She's aged 7 yrs. Like others have mentioned some dogs are not house pets and I think this is the case with ours, She was the runt and it still very small and dainty for her age...we're often asked if she's a puppy.

She has nipped my 10 year old daughter on two occasions and attempted to do the same with me once (putting eye drops in),always pees on the floor afterwards with guilt as she's otherwise very obedient. She's never actually drawn blood. The nipping is like a reflex action that she can't control, but this just makes it more worrying. She's only done it about 5 times in her whole life, but we're very aware that she could do it again. Once was when my daughter was patting her, so she doesn't pat her anymore.

We spent a lot of time working with my daughter and dog together when she was younger so dog could learn that my daughter is the boss of the dog. Our dog knows this and is very aware of its boundaries yet still the reflex to nip comes in quite randomly. Doesn't seem to be an attack when she does it, more like a warning, she's not actually made contact with me and I think she's saying "get off" more than anything.

If our daughter had been younger like your son, I think we would have had to have got rid of the dog. Ours is an extremely well behaved and fit dog. Hubby and son are both cross country runners who train daily, so dog gets lots of exercise so there's no frustration there, it's just her nature.

It's very hard, but our neighbour had a dog that they said "turned" when it was around 5 years old. Not sure what this means? But they couldn't trust it anymore and had it put down.

Hope you make a decision that is right for you. We nearly got rid of our dog after the first time, obviously we didn't, but you can't relax around the dog the same way afterwards. We adapted our behaviour and kept ours. With your son though it would be quite hard because of his young age, can't realistically expect him to adapt his behaviour.

Would try and get your dog rehoused maybe?

SK

jabberwocky · 07/03/2010 02:45

We decided to rehome our dog when ds1 was about 5 months old. The dog had not actually bitten ds1 yet but had started snapping and biting unexpectedly and I didn't want to wait until something awful happened. YANBU

LittleGandT · 07/03/2010 03:01

I don't see how you can keep your dog, but of course it should not be put down. It should be cared for as well and sensitively as possible -by someone else. It's great to be sympathetic to and understanding of the dog's response and i'm sure it is a lovely dog. But by the sound of it, it's needs are not compatible with your son's right now. Which one of them are you going to keep?!

Threepwood · 07/03/2010 03:50

If it is just a one off incident then I think you should get the dog rehomed rather than put down.

MissWooWoo · 07/03/2010 03:57

YANBU

I was bitten my our family dog just above the eye (no damage thankfully) when I was about 9, about a year later he bit my sister who was only a toddler - one of her tear ducts now doesn't work. The dog had to go. It's a shame my parents didn't get rid of the dog after the first incidence.

Your son is only 20 months old, please get rid of the dog now. It's for the best