to wish that one day, being prejudice against a breastfeeding mum will be the same as being prejudice against race, religion, sexuality, disability etc.?

[eggontoast]

Luckily, we have adopted laws in this country to prevent many kinds of discrimination. Unfortunately, it does not always work, but it does offer some degree of protection for those concerned. (OK, it may not stop people feeling racist for example, but they will put on a front, better than nothing I suppose. And, it does not stop everyone, I know, but at least they are taken to account for their actions (when caught).

I just feel that I, and others like me, are completely fair game to those who oppose bf so strongly that they will kick you out of their cafe, or off the bus they are driving.

To me, it is similar, not the same of course, as being able to ask someone to leave their bus or cafe because they are black or a lesbian.

I think there maybe something in the pipeline, but it just seems so far away.

To liken ff to choosing Pampers is appalling to be frank. Many of us that turn to it found bf a hideous,distressing and often painful experience- I've never found buying nappies any of the above.

Errr, WORMWOOD you are not seriously trying to link FF with diabetes and obesity are you? I do hope not, becuase you post read that way....

BTW I think that the woman who get booted out of the charity shop acted like a stupid TWAT. I BF, but I would not dream of going into a shop and barging into their changing room to BF. As I read she was not even shopping thyere and it was a small diddy charity shop. I think thats rude TBH. If you know that you are out for the day with a BF baby surely its common sense to ensure that you choose a route with friendly BF places en route??? Surely ensuring that you can happily and comfortably feed your child when out is a sensible parenting decision?

Most people sensibly BF in cafes/bars/nursing rooms where they feel comfortable, and no lynchings, abuse or shootings seem to occur normally.......

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I suppose when you only have 1 child (the newborn) its easy to manage your route around BF locales. when you have toddler, maybe less so.... But then there are BREASTPUMPS, do the BF nazi disapprove of these too? If I was going out and knew I might not feel comfortable feeding I expressed.

but woman in question was on her own, so my argument stands. after all noone here would go out for the day with a toddler without (a) ensuring they could get food where they were going or (b) taking food just in case

why risk putting yourself into an uncomfortable siutaation?

can see the fanatics are here (roles eyes) with their mindless pathetic comments!
Yes because intelligent people dont make the"right" choice, and that FF is "lame" blah blah blah!

pathetic is all I have to see!

maybe some people need to have common sense also!

Bf is a CHOICE! as is FF that is a fact! how can anybody dispute that is a idiot!

So people who cant dont want to BF/FF has to let their children die, as simply its not a choice!

Wormwood, Please can I ask you to think about what you are writing on this thread. I found your following comment very upsetting.

"but then there are mothers who will have persevered with bf AND EVENTUALLY OVERCAME THESE PROBLEMS and those who gave up all too easily."

This statement is wrong on so many levels. Yes, with proper support many mothers can overcome breastfeeding issues. But sadly as a bottle feeding society, we fail so many mothers. Many mothers who are forced onto formula against their own wishes. It is rubbing salt in the wound to suggest that they "gave in too easily"

Please just think before posting.

Yes, there is an alternative to breastfeeding, by using formula. But when this choice goes against how a mother desires, wants and feels is this a real choice.

Does it not also follow there is an alternative to living an openly gay lifestyle. A person could marry the opposite gender and have children and pretend to be straight and avoid gay prejudice in that way.

Also in terms of religion. A Jewish person could hide the fact they are religious or even practice a different religion and avoid prejudice in that way.

But we all see from my two (tongue in cheek) examples, how ridiculous it would be to expect people to choose to do something which goes against how they feel in order to please other people.

This is why we have legal protection to stop people behaving in a prejudice way and yes, I think this should be extended to feeding choices. No woman should be moved on or prevented from feeding her baby, whatever the method of feeding.

but how on earth are they pleasing other people, if they have to "please other people" to become who they really are, then surely that is behavioural and not a choice?

The baby is not the one enduring those examples above, by peoples lack of understanding/prejudice/discrimination! This is a mothers choice, on how to feed her baby!

Im sorry but this does not (for me anyhow) be put in the same category for feeding our children a choice off feeding method!

"It takes very little for a new mum to provide colostrum (whether directly or via expressing) to a baby weighing about as much as a bag of flour for one week or so - for every mum that uses a bad birth, bleeding nipples, c-sections etc as an excuse there will be another who was intelligent enough to find her way through this? "

wormwood that is a very dangerous statement to make and also very hurtful to mothers who felt like they couldn't go on. Some mothers really really try and feel like they can't because they are in pain. I've personally seen someone cry every time she fed her baby for 2 weeks. She was in pain, absolute pain and it's people like you who to this day make her feel like a failure. Not everyone's as big and brave as you wormwood and what they need is support and advice not a dressing down and to be told they are unintelligent.

when you are (a) sleep deprived (b) in pain (c) have no fucking clue and lastly (d) seeing your baby not gaining weight I cannot blame people that grab for a bottle of cow and gate

worm, shame on you, shame on you for such shitty and unsupporitve comments

"but how on earth are they pleasing other people, if they have to "please other people" to become who they really are, then surely that is behavioural and not a choice?"

I agree, which is why it is unfair to ask a mother to feed in a certain way, time or situation. As a society we should encourage all mothers to feed their babies when and where they need to.

"If you know that you are out for the day with a BF baby surely its common sense to ensure that you choose a route with friendly BF places en route???"

This PLANET is a breastfeeding friendly place. It is some of the people on it that are not.

I've noticed that 'the baby' has only started to be mentioned in the later posts. Choosing a route with friendly BF places -I find this hilarious.
A baby needs the milk right now,screaming for it, not when and if the quiet corner in the big cafe is available, especially in a sudden downpour or snowstorm.

It's being forced to do a quite personal activity in public (discreetely, too, so no one is offended...)that I find difficulty with. I used to go into churches.

It was another shock of new-motherhood, to find that the Big World is actually designed against any life with a baby out of the home.
That's why birth used to be called confinement.
Plus, of course,in that Big World, breasts are to be regarded(!) as totally sexual assets and not as two potential milkbottles.

Having bf twins(albeit only for 6 weeks) I have to say I never struggled to find anywhere to feed them, it really isn't that difficult . You wop out a boob and stick a baby on (in my case you start sobbing too but hey ho) I had a huuuuuge double buggy too. You can do it absolutely anywhere and discretely very easily.

I found it far more difficult to find places to ff as I had to balance hot water,2 x bottles and 2 x babies. Either way it really was never that hard, most people are extremely accommodating with tiny babies in fact you often want to scream "back off I'm fine".

I agree with the breast feeding poster that described all this as a huge and dance over nothing.

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Wormwood,

Formula is not "powdered shit" it is a valid alternative to breastmilk for those mothers who chose or need it.

We know the majority of mothers start to breastfeed and stop before they are ready to, often in the first 6 weeks of their babies lives.

Just think about what that actually means. How would you feel if you were one of the mothers who wanted to breastfeed. For whatever reason had no choice but to move to formula feed. Then you came across a post on this forum telling you that the milk you were giving your precious baby is "powdered shit", how upset would you be ?

If you are involved with the LLL movement, I respectfully request that you contact your local LLL Leader and talk through your issues with formula feeding. Allow yourself to become educated in the issues surrounding breastfeeding support and formula use and maybe then you might come back onto this thread and understand why your posts are so inappropriate.

It would also be worth searching for threads in our archives especially reading posts written by Tiktok. There you will see a shinning example of how to support mothers feeding their babies, whatever the method of feeding, whilst still discussing the political side of formula companies.

Please open your mind, things are not as black and white as you seem to think they are, it is a whole lot of gray.

Wormwood I'm totally staggered at your ignorance you really shouldn't be working for LLL . Do they know how badly informed you are and how prejudiced?

Somebody reassure me all LLL workers aren't like this?

MilaMae, Despite her dedication to nursing her own children, I doubt she officially works for the LLL. It is much more likely she attends meetings (like I do) as a mum and learns elements of breastfeeding information in that way. Through I wait to be corrected if I am wrong

That is why I suggested she talked to her local LLL Leader who will be a qualified breastfeeding counsellor and will be aware of the wider issues surrounding breastfeeding support and formula feeding.

I am confident if she wished to, she could learn a lot from the LLL (or other breastfeeding support charities) and go on to help more mothers in the future, but her current attitude needs careful adjusting first.

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wormwood, i hope the women you counsel via LLL and may end up still bottlefeeding, don't ever hear your thoughts on formula being powdered shit or your crass assertion that they are not intelligent enough/didn't try hard enough

it's ok to be prejudiced againt mothers who formula feed is it?

beacuse your posts are very close to teh mark

you don't have to be pro bf and anti ff, teh two aren't mutually exclusive

wormwood, for like for like!
your a pleb!

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holy crap, Wormwood, you are a LLL counsellor? Do they know your views?