to wish that one day, being prejudice against a breastfeeding mum will be the same as being prejudice against race, religion, sexuality, disability etc.?

[eggontoast]

Luckily, we have adopted laws in this country to prevent many kinds of discrimination. Unfortunately, it does not always work, but it does offer some degree of protection for those concerned. (OK, it may not stop people feeling racist for example, but they will put on a front, better than nothing I suppose. And, it does not stop everyone, I know, but at least they are taken to account for their actions (when caught).

I just feel that I, and others like me, are completely fair game to those who oppose bf so strongly that they will kick you out of their cafe, or off the bus they are driving.

To me, it is similar, not the same of course, as being able to ask someone to leave their bus or cafe because they are black or a lesbian.

I think there maybe something in the pipeline, but it just seems so far away.

I disagree that breast feeding is a choice. A bit like saying eating is a choice. Where and how you do it is a choice.

worm/bonsoir

thats a suprise re France, then again my friend who lives there did not BF either, so maybe not...

Its just that in a country so focussed on nutrition,and good food, I'd have thought they be bang on it. They are very pro BF in Italy, for example

why so in France, curious

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i thought vanity might come into it!!!! anyway hijak, sorry

It will be viewed as the same kind of discrimination after a few million breast-feeding mums have been murdered, sent to death camps, or can't park outside supermarkets.

well put tiggy.

French women have always outsourced infant feeding - wet nursing was a massive, state-regulated industry well before the French revolution. The tradition of not breastfeeding your baby lives on in FF.

I don't have to have had personal experience of discrimination in order to sympathise with someone else's plight.

I don't feel the need to enter into the oneupmanship of "my discrimination is more valid than yours"

I don't believe that chucking someone out of a shop for breastfeeding is as heinous as beating someone up for being a different race, for example. It is an entirely different degree of act. Yes, "comparable" as in, both are discriminatory and unfair acts, but not "equivalent", as they involve very different degrees of severity of action.

But I do believe that chucking someone out of a shop for breastfeeding is the same as chucking them out for being gay / disabled / black.

You may think the act of humiliating/ excluding/ denying service to another person a minor infringement on one's human rights. Maybe so.

But I wouldn't tolerate it happening to my DH on account of his race. I wouldn't tolerate it happening to my SIL because of her disability. And I think they wouldn't tolerate it happening to me because I'm a breastfeeding mother.

And as to those who suggest that breastfeeding my child is a choice, as if I could simply change my mind to make other people's lives easier? Speaking only for myself, my instinct and drive to breastfeed my babies is as fundamental to me and as much a part of who I am as my sexual orientation is. I could adopt a different way of behaving and deny my true feelings on the matter but I would suffer tremendous conflict and anguish if I couldn't do what my own instinct drives me to do - and in this instance it is a drive to breastfeed.

I completely accept that many women feel very differently about how they feed their children. And I don't question or judge their feelings. But I'm not alone, in feeling an irresistable instinct to want to breastfeed my babies. It doesn't feel like a 'choice' to me - it feels like a biological imperative.

there is a great difference.
I have never heard of anyone being targetted by thugs because they bf.
never heard of them being driven to suicide.
untill these kind of things are stamped out you don't stand a chance of winning.

winning what, 2shoes?

There isn't a competition. It's that kind of thinking which is part of the problem.
There isn't a priority order either, dictating that discrimination A must be eradicated entirely from the world before discrimination B may begin to be addressed. There is room to empathise with everyone's issues, large and small.

Do as you would be done to, surely?

Don't tolerate the poor treatment of others if you would abhor that treatment yourself.

Wouldn't they be better approaches to adopt?

I agree with "thesecondcoming" post.yes no discrimination or baning bf publicly should be imposed but in general what you are suggesting is expreme.also what do you mean by public?A shop or a resteurant is entitle to have bf banned in its premises as its a private company whereas bf in a park is different.
whats ths big fuss anw ?

Actually, a shop or restaurant does not have the legal right to ban breastfeeding on its premises. That's why they can be sued under the sexual discrimination or maternity act. It's a PITA to pursue though.

Better is the situation in Scotland; a fine can be imposed upon anyone who attempts to stop or move on a breastfeeding mother.

2shoes - I have spoken to mothers in France whose DH/PILs created a situation in which it was impossible for them to breastfeed, despite the mother's desire to do so. The mother was powerless. Is that not very reprehensible discrimination?

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so its sexual discrimination if a restaurant or shop doesnt approve a woman sitting exposing a part of her body and breastfeeding?
ps:I read many people pro-bf saying this is an option for every woman.Lets not forget that many women for many reasons simply cannot bf for physical or other reasons.should they become victims of discrimination from a group claiming to be "perfect mothers"?
Or as if we should care if people of France bf or not?doent that make us racists on other people options you so much claim to care for?Its a personal option that does not involve any other than a baby parents.

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for a start I don't live in france.
second, what I was trying to say that it was mentioned in the op about laws to preven discmination, seeing as nothing much is done about the things I mention, do you really think anything would be done in your case.
if the law is not already acted on, adding things that people choose to do, will not make a difference.

2shoes, you insist on pushing this 'choice' concept as if it makes a difference.

It sounds very similar to misguided arguments I've heard about being entitled to discriminate against others because their choices make us uncomfortable. Some would hold the opinion that others should choose diffent options to 'fit in' with society's norms. Like, say, religious dress choices, or overt expressions of sexual orientation (like choosing to hold hands or kiss publicly). Some people disapprove of mixed race marriages. All are choices people might make, and all are choices protected by law. Anyone who is discriminated against on such a basis has recourse to the law to gain justice. And don't we all welcome the law to protect such rights? The law may not be perfect, and many people may sadly choose to break the law. But that is not a valid reason to suggest the law should not be extended to cover all parties who experience discrimination.

What I find so disappointing and frustrating isn't that boneheads and muppets might condemn public breastfeeding. It's that so many otherwise intelligent and thoughtful people still haven't had the penny drop yet regarding breastfeeding. It's like a blinkered refusal to extend tolerance and acceptance to all parties that need it.

What is this about; compassion fatigue?

verylittlecarrot couldn't agree more. don't want to sound like a twat but fantastic posts!

verylittlecarrot - have agreed with everything you have said

I love the way you have expressed what is exactly in my mind verylittlecarrot.

Its not about who's discrimination is worse or whether the law will work or not - it is about protection for all plights, whether choice or not.

so what are we suppose to do with mothers that CHOOSE NOT to bf or simply can't do so(most people in this country seem to exclude this possibility)?Should we shoot them or imprison them for the possibility of using more the NHS?Or should we proceed and ban chocolate because people eating them could possibly be " indirectly correlated to what we end up paying into the NHS towards childhood obesity, diabetes etc"? Should we raise every parenting issue to a social issue?what's next ostracize people using pampers?
I believe this issue here was raised in order to protect people willing to breastfeed from being discriminated,why did the issue changed to discriminating all those who CHOOSE something else?
ps:btw I am very pro-bf in my personal life but fail to understand why there is such discrimination on the mothers that cant/dont want to bf,or have an epidural or cesarian or whatever looks anoying to the eyes of alhpa-mothers!

How people feed their babies is their business and no one elses.Women should be able to feed their babies wherever they want and not have anyone else pass comment or ask them to leave cafes, regardless of whether they bf or ff.

panayiota - if pampers were not available, i wouldn't buy them. i am lazy and it is more convenient. likewise, if the tons and tons of sugar/chocolate/crap that some of us eat was not available, people wouldn't eat it and get disease ridden bodies and end up twenty stone with serious COSTLY problems.

imo this idea of choice is a bit lame, 'oh its my right to choose' at any cost. i am more than happy to admit that some of my choices are lazy and i wish i wasn't given that choice sometimes. that is entirely my failure to take responsibility for a more responsible choice.

it is controversial for some but imo, and in response to your post, ff IS a lame choice, and yes we should make parenting choices a social issue.

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