schools constantly asking parents for money

[saslou]

AIBU to resent being constantly asked for money by my childrens school. This week we have World book day, so I am just off out to get costumes as I am not very good at making things. They also have the book fair this week and an author coming into school who will also be giving children the "opportunity" to purchase her books while she is there. I am very happy to buy books but don't think that school is the right place to sell children things.
In addition my childrens school wants parents to pay the insurance and travel costs of compulsory school activities (they don't even ask nicely, just tell you that these are the costs). Recently I got billed for a lost library book that my child hadn't even brought home.
I feel mean because I know they have financial pressures but also feel I am being treated like their own personal cashpiont. It doesn't occur to them that not all parents have lomitless amounts of money.
Anyway, sorry for long rant...

even if they had just 2 children one pack of fags does not a single school trip for both children equal.......

I have a friend who had a DD, then 2yrs later fell pg with twins...

They are now 2 school years apart, and she's forking out for 3 school residential trips next term.

Thankfully I have 3yrs between mine so have until I have one at senior school before I have to worry about the possibility of paying for 2 residentials in the same year.

Actually just over 1yr ago I did a calculation of how much I spent on DS1 and 2's school stuff in the first term of the school year - no residentisl as they were in Reception and YR3.

In one term I paid out £190 - nearly £50 a month. At that time that was a weeks shopping budget for me !

Brahms - it's not really that new - I'm nearly 31 - my parents paid out a fortune for school trips, mufti days, resedentials etc etc.

Sorry Maisie - you've lost me. Have you asked at the office or not?

And are you seriously telling me that you've not had notice about paying £400 for a trip? They didn't tell you about it? The skiing trip isn't a necessity anyway - if you can't afford it don't send them. Not going didn't kill mine and I doubt it will kill yours. Or would you prefer the opportunity wasn't on offer at all?

I don't know Toccata - I'm 41, and it definitely wasn't the same in my (very ancient) day. My parents, and plenty of others that we knew, would have balked at being asked for the amount of money we're asked for.

You're wilfully misunderstanding me. If parents spend £5.50 a day on a packet of fags that's quite a few pounds a week which could be spent on their children's education. I am not pretending it would cover a skiing holiday. And btw, when I was in school some kids went skiing - a trip run by the school staff in their own time - and many didn't. Some things you can afford, some you can't. I would love to be able to afford a house deposit but I can't. That's life.

Yes, but a trip run in the teacher's own time (in the holidays I presume?) is very different from a trip in school time that a child is kept back from and put with another class because their parents can't afford it. That doesn't teach a 7 year old any kind of life lesson, and it's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

I genuinely don't think it happened 'in my day' (i.e til 2001 ish). Mufti once a term, if that, £1 donation but if you turned up in mufti without a quid no one was going to make a fuss. School trips that required payment once a year MAX and most of them were quite small. I don't know how even quite well-off people afford all this stuff people are talking about. And the 'world book day, you have to buy a book stuff' huh?? Capitalism gone mad.

What is this mufti of which you speak?!

Sorry to come back to this but the government tells schools they have to run a certain number of trips in a school year. Each class are supposed by law to have one per term at least, and one of those has to be an Art trip (in reality of course this doesn't happen). It's an entire section of the OFSTED report.

We have the Care Commission up here, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't legislate for school trips.

I have photos of me on a resedential trip when I was 10 or 11yrs old - was a week in the Peak District!And I remember not being able to go on school trips when I was younger than that as my parents couldn't afford it.

I love this assumption that those can don't have £10+ (and multipy that by how ever many children you have - god help if you've got twins or triplets) to spend on school trips have had more children than they can afford or smoke all their spare money away (ie wreckless spending).

I could quit smoking tomorrow - and the money I "saved" wouldn't even cover the one school years worth of stuff for just 2 children.

And unless you hadn't noticed most parents are suprised when their PFB starts school at how much money they spend on school trips/events...........so obviously not something that many parents factor into "can I afford to have a child/another child"

I see. Well given that the costs of raising a child are pretty well-publicised, then being surprised when they get to school and it costs a lot of money seems a bit odd to me. But maybe that's just me.

Can't believe that there some stingy b***ds out there . You can't even sacrifice £1 on helping others less fortunate. You should be teaching your child(ren) some morals. If you can afford it what's the problem. If you can't ..then that's who we should be helping or given what you can (although don't take liberties) because you don't know what you own future holds. You could be the one needing help.
In my experience it's the middle classes that take the most advantage!!

I don't tend to read stories that say "£200,000 to raise a child"............as it's more than I'd earn in one of my children getting from 1-18

and - without scrolling back through the whole thread I can see at least one person to whom the amount of money required for school trips is a shock..............

On the other side how would you feel if your child went to our school?

We (like our neighbouring schools) are financially on the edge (or over...). Most parents have not contributed to the summer fair/ school fund etc. in the past two years. The PTA has now finally, after a slow death, hit zero members.

This year it's got to the point where:
-there are NO trips (aside walking around the housing estate where we are occassionally)

• there are no artists/ musicians etc. visiting

-the additional fun but unnecessary resources most schools have no longer come

In fact last term we ran out of pencils/ books for a bit. We can't order glue sticks or art resources because we just have enough for bare essentials.

We are not wasting cash! The biggy for us which really did it was having all the lead nicked off the roof and a break in during the same half term (the excess on school insurance is a grand). We spent a fair chunk on subsidising uniform/ school nurse/ essential services. Staff costs are also difficult to meet. The building itself is in disrepair with constant repairs needed (one set of toilets locked all the time for health and safety reasons, electrics had to be redone). This isn't unusual, we are just unfortunate in the additional costs we've seen pushing us to the edge.

The schools neighbouring us also no longer run trips. Swimming IS compulsory, yet has been stopped for a while.

Is this the school you'd rather send your kids to? This is the school without parental contribution or involvement. No money or time is offered so ALL miss out on extras. I understand some struggle, and schools ARE supportive in cases of genuine need should parents quietly talk to a teacher. However people also need to realise that no school budget is enough on its own to cover anything above the basics. If you'd rather not send children on trips/ take part in days do what our parents do and vote with your feet. All activities will soon stop.

It's a basic principal. School has a budget. If budget is spent there is no budget. There not different budgets from the government for every little thing.

What do I expect? Parents who don't contribute won't get. That's all. Extras are extras, and without paying extra you don't get extra. Your child will have a teacher/ something to write with etc. but nothing to very little in terms of extra enjoyment and enrichment activities. Not because the school is a big baddy, but bcause the money is not there. If there was a little extra it's often been spent on greater need, uniform for those bursting out of old uniform, speech and language support, enhanced school nurses, translators for families unable to access basics.

It's parental choice, you don't have to pay, they don't have to get. Noone is made to, our school is the example of where there is no support. More importantly for us is not the financial support but the TIME anyway. As for being an area with no spare cash, my car is a joke among parents with better, kids have all sort of electronic games and fncy clothing (they wear non-uniform on such days but don't bring a contribution, we've hiven up). To some degree it's a choice in MOST (not all) cases. An ipod/ds/ ds game/ extra sweets/cinema/bowling/new book or educational trip/ activity. Living within 10 min of the school myself I see clearly the choice most make. I don't fight over it, not my choice to make.

You may be interested in this, scroll down to bottom table. Average primary/secondary budget deficit March 2008 (end of financial year).

All England average
Primary £26,800 (6.5%)
Secondary £131,000 (14.8%)

Just to show it's not unusual and schools are forced to ask.

docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:XrDEAk6fUyMJ:cmis.milton-keynes.gov.uk/CmisWebPublic/Binary.ashx% 3FDocument%3D27649+average+primary+school+defeceit&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESim7lZA53evzSfuioi4 64bT4Fbh1ZTV9KmWLq-L6RZoFRedSXWvgTxKY92Brjc1q76TDgjmB5W2oLfUJA3lLQMPOiQT6MQ-nAZ6RNqnYBoWDi9d4vDfQd lHCCbyUk0unsJPSh&sig=AHIEtbQAs6LKbkm8ihReJwytivMWUxjVIw

Do you know which Biology specification your DS is doing, Riven.

IME, there are alternatives to field work (book research, basically), so that all students can fulfil the requirements of the course.

However, there is no denying that fieldwork is an enriching part of Biology. Yes, you can do the course without it, but it's not such a good experience.

The other students shouldn't have to miss out because not everyone can afford it. Fairness really should go both ways. Maybe their parents have scrimped and saved, or they have done some kind of fundraiser. Not everyone is completely flush with cash. For everyone who cannot afford a single penny towards a trip, there are some who struggle to find the money and do an extra shift, or sell something, or cut back on their food budget, or write begging letters to grandparents.

If the fieldwork is truly essential in that he will miss a chunk of marks by not going, then you can't blame the school. It is the awarding body (QCA/government in disguise) who set out the work required.

Thank you Strawberrykate. You've just illustrated my point far better than I did.

And sorry, forgot to add this, the situation in your school reminds me of when I was at primary school in the eighties. Our "blocks" were put up as temporary buildings in the sixties, there were outside toilets, we had no library, no books, no displays and limited heating. One cold winter we came in to the classroom and there were frozen puddles on the floor. We had no trips, save to eisteddfods because the school happened to have a couple of talented and dedicated musicians. There was no PTA and no parental interest. In 1985 the teachers finally went on strike and worked to rule so there were no clubs, no pantomime, no extras. This doesn't have much to do with the current discussion but it does remind me of how far education has come in the last twenty or so years and how quickly people have become used to a certain minimum from the State. Somehow though we emerged from this with a good standard of education so millions of extras aren't always necessary and your children won't ultimately suffer if they don't have them, apart from maybe some temporarily bruised pride. That never hurt anyone and is a good lesson to learn. When I was in Y10 and 11 and the sixth form I was able to get a weekend job and able to pay for some of the things I wanted to do. It was good budgeting experience.

"I could quit smoking tomorrow - and the money I "saved" wouldn't even cover the one school years worth of stuff for just 2 children."

Cant believe that, say its £4 a packet (have no idea as dont know anyone close who smokes) x 7 x 52 = £1456. That would by far cover school trips, mufti days for 2 children.

I've read more of this thread and I'm amazed at the poster who knows someone who gets out of paying by not giving permission and waiting until the TA comes to find them on the day of the trip! No slip despite reminders (e.g. phonecall so we know parents are aware)= child staying behind in another class that day! Maybe half the problem is schools trying to be nice and being worried kids miss out, that's why they chase a bit, in case 'pupil post' has failed.

The stipulation that a trip will be cancelled if there is no money for it is not a threat to coerce parents, it's a fact bourne out of financial necessity and in effect a choice for parents to make.

By the way, trips are hardly a dream for teachers. Longer hours, risk assessments and organisation runs into a serious time committment without dealing with complaints. Last trip (two years ago, I don't think I can be blamed!) I had half the parents in uproar because we were travelling on public transport in rush hour a long way, was I 'too stupid' to get a coach. The cheapest coach quote for 60 kids was just over £600 (normal). I gave the three choices to a impromptu lynch mob large meeting of parents in playground who refused to sign slips on 'safety' grounds unless I got a coach.
1: Go on trip to zoo, for free on public transport
2: pay £10/£11 for trip
3: don't go (I could easily cancel trip and was clearly willing)
Explained that option 4 of coach but no contribution did NOT exist nor was I bound by law to take the children on said trip, despite what many seemed to think. I suggested that I would love though extra parents to volunteer to come as extra adults to supervise (at no cost to them) for a nice day out. Actually sent a letter home to ask opinions.
You can guess the outcome, we went on public transport without any helpers coming forward after all parents lost interest and just sent in slips (no replies to letter).

By the way I would never take kids out if I did not believe it to be safe. I know that transport comapany are great at giving extra buses/ train carriages for us if we arrange in advance and I had EVERY spare adult in school going!

Now I get mutterings about boring trips where the kids go all the time(geography-looking at local housing, art-drawing in park, science-soil sifting in park etc.).

nope - I spent £40-45 a month on my tobacco. (if I buy Amber Leaf - if I order Bayleaf from Asda it's much less) That's £540 over the course of a year, or about £350 if I use the cheap blend available at Asda.

I paid out more than £45 in February, and will pay out more than that this month.